OneDnD Cleric Playtest Summary

Gorck

Prince of Dorkness
Currently you either get +1d8 on attacks or cantrips. Now it's both. And moving it to the base class means every subclass gets a new ability.

It's power creep on a class that doesn't need it.
For the Life domain . . .
  • Domain Spells and Disciple of Life went from 1st level to 3rd level (pushed back 2 levels)
  • Bonus Proficiency went from a 1st level subclass feature to a 2nd level class feature called Holy Order: Protector (pushed back 1 level and made a base feature, gaining Martial Weapon Proficiency)
  • Preserve life went from 2nd level to 6th level (pushed back 4 levels)
  • Blessed Healer went from 6th level to 10th level (pushed back 4 levels)
  • Divine Strike went from an 8th level subclass feature to a 7th level class feature called Blessed Strikes (moved up 1 level and made a base feature, gaining use on cantrip)
  • Supreme Healing went from 17th level to 14th level (moved up 3 levels)

I'm failing to see anything indicative of a "power creep."
 
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Weiley31

Legend
Honestly, I like it. I'm also glad that when it comes to Holy Orders, you can at least get 2 out of the 3 eventually.

Really looking forward to the Paladin/Warlock/Sorcerer now.
 

Clint_L

Hero
Also, Smite Undead replaces Destroy Undead. Instead of undead of a certain CR being automatically destroyed when they fail their saves against Turn Undead, Turn Undead just deals Prof bonus d8 damage to all undead who fail their saves. Not sure if that’s an
Huge nerf against low level undead, but on the other hand a huge improvement against tougher undead, because they still take damage.

For example, at level 5 your Smite Undead will do an average of 13.5 damage. That's barely enough to destroy a skeleton, and very little else, whereas right now you could nuke a LOT more creatures. The difference between the two gets worse as you go up levels. So it has become much worse at dealing with tons of weaker undead. But it's a much better option against a swarm of slightly tougher undead that would have just shrugged off the old Destroy Undead.
 

I know it's not an actual obligatory part of the class but I have to talk about their suggested spell list. Clearly things like this are a big part of WotC's accessibility plans for the new edition.

First off, while I like the idea of a suggested spell loadout for all levels, I'm once again going to say that WotC seems to think these things are way more of a panacea for confused newbies than they are going to be (most people don't want to feel like they're making "the man's" Cleric). They're good to have, but both WotC and some commenters seem to think they solve accessibility problems and they simply don't do that.

More importantly, what value it has is further compromised by making a pretty questionable list. They're not recommending Healing Word??? Why put off Guidance until level 4 and why, in particular take Shield of Faith before Bless? I'm sure Beacon of Hope is a fine spell, but why are they prioritizing something I don't think I have ever seen someone cast and had to look up just now over Mass Healing Word, Dispel Magic, and Revivify? The Cleric player's going to be real popular when they reveal to the player whose character just died that they didn't think they should prep Revivify that day because the list said Beacon of Hope was the money spell.

I know it seems nit-picky, but if they want to provide actual value with the ink spilled and paper filled on lists like this they should make actual, thoughtful recommendations for the best all-around package for the average Cleric the way people actually play the game, not try to use it as a way to engineer how people play the class or try to feature less popular spells. It's not like the suggested list is full of trap options or whatever, but they should just ask any of the people who do class guide's online to suggest a list. While the accepted online wisdom about the quality of various spells is not without major issues, regurgitating the average internet class guide's judgement about spell loadout would provide more value than what they are doing.

Still better than the Ranger list in the last playtest where they recommended prepping Hunters Mark despite giving that to all Rangers for free.
 


Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
Currently you either get +1d8 on attacks or cantrips. Now it's both. And moving it to the base class means every subclass gets a new ability.

It's power creep on a class that doesn't need it.
And one of their best low-level spells was nerfed significantly (Spiritual Weapon now requires concentration).

OneD&D tweaks the level of power both ways. It nerfs some things and makes buffs to others. You're ignoring the nerfs in order to claim power creep.
 


Using Holy Order to mix and match Domain with basic party role is a game changer. There's just going to be vastly more domains I would now consider for any given cleric character concept.

There is a slight drawback in as much as when helping an absolute beginner choose subclass I would often start with asking them if they wanted to be a frontline weapon swinging or backline spell slinging type cleric, but since the narrowing down of options marrying role with subclass offered only helped newbies who have a veteran helping them or who read through all the subclasses carefully I think it's a minimal loss.
 

Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
For the Life domain . . .
  • Domain Spells and Disciple of Life went from 1st level to 3rd level (pushed back 2 levels)
  • Bonus Proficiency went from a 1st level subclass feature to a 2nd level class feature called Holy Order: Protector (pushed back 1 level and made a base feature, gaining Martial Weapon Proficiency)
  • Preserve life went from 2nd level to 6th level (pushed back 4 levels)
  • Blessed healer went from 6th level to 10th level (pushed back 4 levels)
  • Divine Strike went from an 8th level subclass feature to a 7th level class feature called Blessed Strikes (moved up 1 level and made a base feature, gaining use on cantrip)
  • Supreme Healing went from 17th level to 14th level (moved up 3 levels)

I'm failing to see anything indicative of a "power creep."
I've seen a bunch of people over the past few months only highlight either the buffs or nerfs to the classes and races in the OneD&D playtest packets. Whatever fits the narrative that they're pushing.

The correct way to analyze these packets is to take all of the changes together, separate the nerfs from buffs, and then compare them to each other. Not just focus in on a single class feature that got a buff and start claiming "powercreep!"
 

I don't like Divine Spark. The healing option is probably overpowered in general, and definitely overpowered compared to the offensive option. Healing is more powerful in 5e (and presumably 5.5e) than an equivalent amount of damage even without a saving throw against that damage.

Also it is something that involves a number of dice equal to your proficiency bonus that can be done a number of times equal to proficiency bonus, and I now have a firm policy of making fun of WotC any time they do two levels of proficiency bonus based scaling on the same ability. Come on, there's other numbers.
 

And now I come to think of it the other reason not to have War/Knowledge/Theurgy as domains is that it invites probably unwanted direct comparisons. Which is better between a Knowledge Thaumaturge or a Theurgy Scholar? The concepts are almost the same.
I also think that gonna lead to some confusion with IRL religious order.
For actual phb, a religious order would probably be based on domain,
now UA add a cleric order, that is a role within a domain, and will conflict with the concept of IRL religious order.
 



I like it a lot at a glance but I would prefer to give holy order at level 1 and divine spark at level 2.
Yeah, the downside of that is that people have an extra level one decision to make, which is probably why they put Holy Order off until level 2. But as is it puts people planning to be "Protectors" in the boat of having to decide between having weapons and armor they can't actually use yet as starting equipment or hitting level 2 and not being able to really level up until they can go shopping. I think WotC overestimates the stress the additional level 1 decision creates, when in my experience most newbies have a clear idea of whether they want to be a backline spellslinging Cleric or a frontline weapon swinging Cleric long before they can decide what sort of Cleric they want to be beyond that.
 

Using Holy Order to mix and match Domain with basic party role is a game changer. There's just going to be vastly more domains I would now consider for any given cleric character concept.

There is a slight drawback in as much as when helping an absolute beginner choose subclass I would often start with asking them if they wanted to be a frontline weapon swinging or backline spell slinging type cleric, but since the narrowing down of options marrying role with subclass offered only helped newbies who have a veteran helping them or who read through all the subclasses carefully I think it's a minimal loss.
And honestly it's pretty trivial. Instead of Ring mail or possibly even chain mail those front line weapon swingers at level 1 are likely to be wearing scale mail; first level characters really can't afford good armour. Scale's only slightly more expensive than ring mail but at leat as protective unless you're Dex 8. And they're going to be using a mace rather than a morningstar. The archetype still works at level 1. About all you miss is the two handed weapons (which are a trap choice for a cleric) and longbows.
 

Yeah, the downside of that is that people have an extra level one decision to make, which is probably why they put Holy Order off until level 2. But as is it puts people planning to be "Protectors" in the boat of having to decide between having weapons and armor they can't actually use yet as starting equipment or hitting level 2 and not being able to really level up until they can go shopping.
Heavy armour people are meant to be saving up for Splint Armour anyway. At 200GP it's only just out of the reach of a first level character, and is one of the things that gold is actually useful for and it's also where heavy armour pulls away from medium (even with Dex 14 you need a 750 GP breastplate to match it). I'm not seeing a huge problem here.
 

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