OneDnD Cleric Playtest Summary

[Faolyn]

Someone actually used Cure Wounds rather than Healing Word?

Happens in my current party all the time.

 

[Zaukrie]

Channel divinity doesn't require undead to be used. Turn Undead requires Undead - but you also get Divine Spark. You also get a third Channel Divinity option from your domain as your level 6 subclass feature (in the Life Cleric's case Preserve Life) so your major channel divinity option is tied to your god/purpose in the form of your domain.

Every DM is going to include undead so the cleric can shine. And level 6 is a long way off. Like I said, I understand, but that doesn't mean I like it.

 

[Faolyn]

I understand the design decision.... But I hate that channel divinity requires undead be used. I wish, and again, I understand why it isn't, that channel divinity was much more tied to your god or purpose, with like ten options.

I like most of the changes here, actually

It's possible that other domains will allow you to turn things other than undead.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I understand the design decision.... But I hate that channel divinity requires undead be used. I wish, and again, I understand why it isn't, that channel divinity was much more tied to your god or purpose, with like ten options.

I like most of the changes here, actually

That was how the 2014 playtest worked: you had a somewhat long list of CD, you got to choose 2 and one was gifted by the domain. So you could mix and match options to represent more closely your faith's powers ( or powergame it and take all the best ones, I guess).

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I have another issue with the holy order.
In the Scholar option, I think it needs to be clarified, which skills receive the wisdom bonus, all skills on the list or only those 2 selected by the feature. And what hapens if you already know all the skills.

The big issue is: if you are a scholar, you might already know religion. But it is likely that you want your wisdom bonus added to religion. You surely don't want to hold off religion until second level to not waste the wisdom bonus. Seems like a similar problem as with the scout rogue. I really hate that.
The holy order should really go down to level 1.

 

[rules.mechanic]

I'd be interested to know if people think Divine Spark will create a new 1 level dip issue, given that its effect and number of uses are both proficiency bonus based?

 

[Xamnam]

I'd be interested to know if people think Divine Spark will create a new 1 level dip issue, given that its effect and number of uses are both proficiency bonus based?

Oh, wow, yeah, that actually seems rather likely.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I'd be interested to know if people think Divine Spark will create a new 1 level dip issue, given that its effect and number of uses are both proficiency bonus based?

The damage? Nah. Even at its highest it's only 6d8 vs the 4d10 of firebolt.

The heal? The big thing about it is it takes your action; it's better than Cure Wounds because it has range. But Healing Word's far better in combat because it does enough to bring people back onto their feet and let you either cast a cantrip or make your normal attack - and you can get that from Magic Initiate. Which means it's mostly useful as an out of combat feature.

Can I imagine >6 barbarians or >11 fighters taking it if their higher levels aren't significantly improved? Yes, definitely. Having panic buttons is a good thing and higher level fighter and barbarian levels ... mostly aren't worth much. But do I think spending your action to heal an average of 27hp at 17th level is a big issue a few times per day? No. Especially as you should have out of combat healing items way before that.

And at low level I can't think of any class it's remotely worth giving up a level before level 5.

 

[Minigiant]

I know we can't see the paladin but...

I rolled up the cleric sister of the paladin in a real game PC for a playtest. Well...

Samuel Crushwell the 7th (Paladin 3)

Cantrips: 3
Slots: 3 1st level Slots
Smites: 3 Divine Smites (2d8 radiant)
Healing: Lay on Hands for 15 HP
Armor: Heavy
Weapons: Martial
Other: Divine Sense, Divine Health, Divine Smite, Fighting Style, Subclass

Samantha Crushwell the 6th (Cleric3)

Cantrips: 3
Spellcasting: 4 1st level Slots 2 2nd level Slots
"Smites": 4 Thunderous Smites (2d6 thunder) 2 Branding Smites (2d6 radiant)
Healing: Divine 2 Spark for 4d8 (18) HP
Armor: Heavy (Protector)
Weapons: Martial (Protector)
Other: Subclass, Turn Undead

Either Paladin needs a buff (lol), some lateral versatility, or the Smite spells need to be cut from Cleric. It's too close/

 

[MoonSong]

Someone actually used Cure Wounds rather than Healing Word?

Why would anyone rather take the version that enables good narratives and makes in combat healing interesting instead of the easy version that enables degenerate combat loops?/s

 

[Henadic Theologian]

No one seems to have noticed that the cleric's subclass features in the cleric table is called Cleric Subclass Feauture, not Domain Feature.

This suggests that now Domain subclasses are just one possibility when clerics choose a subclass, not the only choice, with the possibility of none Domain cleric subclasses and subclasses that multiple classes can choose being options.

 

[Faolyn]

No one seems to have noticed that the cleric's subclass features in the cleric table is called Cleric Subclass Feauture, not Domain Feature.

This suggests that now Domain subclasses are just one possibility when clerics choose a subclass, not the only choice, with the possibility of none Domain cleric subclasses and subclasses that multiple classes can choose being options.

It could just be a generic term used to make it easier to use. I, for one, am always getting mixed up when it comes to remembering which class uses Paths and which uses Way of--I keep forgetting which one is barbarian and which is monk. I imagine that there's enough people who find it a bit confusing that they just decided to streamline the terminology.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

It could just be a generic term used to make it easier to use. I, for one, am always getting mixed up when it comes to remembering which class uses Paths and which uses Way of--I keep forgetting which one is barbarian and which is monk. I imagine that there's enough people who find it a bit confusing that they just decided to streamline the terminology.

Looking at the structure of subclasses being the same for all classes, I doubt it's just to ease terminology, it's setting the table for subclasses like in the Strixhaven playtest to actually work properly.

 

[Ashrym]

Samantha Crushwell the 6th (Cleric3)

Cantrips: 3
Spellcasting: 4 1st level Slots 2 2nd level Slots
"Smites": 4 Thunderous Smites (2d6 thunder) 2 Branding Smites (2d6 radiant)
Healing: Divine 2 Spark for 4d8 (18) HP
Armor: Heavy (Protector)
Weapons: Martial (Protector)
Other: Subclass, Turn Undead

Either Paladin needs a buff (lol), some lateral versatility, or the Smite spells need to be cut from Cleric. It's too close/

I was comparing the test cleric to the test bard.

Bard, 3rd level

Cantrips: 2
Spellcasting: 4 1st-level slots, 2 2nd-level slots (limited spell schools)
Smites: 0
Healing: 2x bardic inspiration for 2d6 (7) HP
Armor: light, no shield
Weapons: simple
Other: d20 test reaction (bardic inspiration), expertise

The cleric: has a broader spell selection, better healing options, better armor, can replace the heavy armor with medium and a shield going with scholar to approximate the skill bonuses the bard has and still have better armor (or improve the cleric spell casting advantages with thaumaturge), saves WIS instead of DEX.

If I were to guess at spell choices:

Bard: Prestidigitation, Minor Illusion; Sleep, Detect Magic, Hex, Dissonant Whispers; Suggestion, Levitate; Healing Word (Songs of Rest)

Cleric: Guidance, Resistance, Thaumaturgy; Thunderous Smite, Healing Word, Detect Magic, Command; Branding Smite, Augury; Lesser Restoration, Prayer of Healing (Life Domain)

I think the bard still as enough spell options that they are relevant but the overall impression I'm getting is a bard really needs to leverage inspiration and expertise the way things are going.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I think comparing ability vs ability is a dangerous thing to do. I do think the cleric and the bard are close enough to be considered balanced.

 

[Ashrym]

I think comparing ability vs ability is a dangerous thing to do. I do think the cleric and the bard are close enough to be considered balanced.

How so? Weaker spell casting, worse armor, worse saving throw proficiency, lack of damage options.....

In the earlier levels that were just compared, bards average a +3 bonus to two d20 die rolls in the entire day, have and extra skill proficiency, and have expertise. Songs of Restoration replacing Song of Rest removed an ability and forced bards to just cast spells like they already could. A cleric can use the scholar ability to add 2 skill proficiencies and emulate expertise in those skills while still being generally better.

The spell schools restrict bards too much and also deny iconic spells / abilities from previous editions and folklore. Rangers having all schools except evocation gives them a broader spell list than bards. The arcane / divine / primal spell lists are very bad for a class that gained much of it's usefulness in the variety of spells available from a class spell list that blended them.

Now instead of other spell casters being a bit better than bards with spells they overshadow bards significantly. The skill bonuses and a few inspiration bonuses don't balance that out like they did with the blended class list.

Clerics, OTOH, added abilities with holy order (instead of losing something like song of rest) and improved the channel divinity feature with the healing / damage option. The cleric spell list remained largely unchanged instead of removing iconic bard spells (like lifting curses, breaking enchantments, and cursing enemies) from previous editions and folklore.

The changes to the cleric look like good changes. It's the changes to the bard class that cause bards to suddenly look bad in comparison.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I've been thinking I'd like the Turn feature to work on Fiends as well as Undead. It feels very thematic to me.

I like the change to the Destroy Undead. While it does mean that you can't dust large numbers of CR 1/2 undead, I've actually very rarely seen Destroy undead come up, since by 5th level it is far rarer to see them willing to spend the channel divinity on zombies and skeletons. I am slightly less happy that the damage only happens when they fail the save. High level undead getting turned is nasty, so many of them have defenses against it, meaning the damage won't proc either.

Still, the chance for a cleric to harm greater undead when they turn them is very nice.


Things I'm frustrated by?

They have still kept the absolutely horrendous Divine Intervention feature, and then nerfed it.

Life Cleric Preserve life should just heal. It is waay to difficult at the table for people to figure out half their hp, and how many hp they can gain before they hit half hp. Just let them throw out a massive heal. Sure, maybe that means the Barbarian gets healed for 50 hp instead of 15, while the wizard gets 5, and the rogue gets 10 and 20 points gets wasted, but that's fine.

 

[Incenjucar]

I personally hate that clerics still have a built-in favored enemy feature. Undead should be strictly optional.

 

[Li Shenron]

It's a change for the slightly worse in almost every aspect.

 

[Ashrym]

It's a change for the slightly worse in almost every aspect.

How so?