D&D (2024) Cleric Playtest Summary

[Li Shenron]

How so?

Channel Divinity moved one level earlier -> this means you have 2 resource-based ability to manage at 1st level instead of one (spells), more mandatory complexity already at the start of the game

Channel Divinity changed from short-rest based to long-rest based -> this is a dealbreaker for me, since the short/long rests core mechanics of 5e works perfectly for my purposes and the way I run adventures

Divine Spark -> one more healing options and one more damaging option, the class already has too many of both (especially Life Cleric)

Holy Order -> martial weapon proficiency to potentially every cleric is a bit too good, I'd rather have it exclusive to a very few domains

Blessed Strikes -> besides this being boring (already too many 5.0 domain granted Divine Strike instead of having more variety) now it defaults every Cleric to radiant damage, meaning even less variety

Holy Order (9th level) -> since the three options available are completely different, most likely the second choice ends up being redundant for your character

Divine Intervention -> irrelevant change from 7 days to 2d6/2d4 days, one more number you have to write somewhere and keep track of

Generally speaking this is again mostly change for the sake of change (they MUST publish a 50th years anniversary edition, so they are changing bits only to make the update relevant) plus power creep on what is possibly the last class in the game that needs that.

Your mileage might vary, and if you're bored and think you need new books to boost your interest in the hobby, go ahead and support the change, but to me there is nothing here that improves my game significantly, only stuff that is irrelevant or gets in the way we're already playing.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Generally speaking this is again mostly change for the sake of change (they MUST publish a 50th years anniversary edition, so they are changing bits only to make the update relevant) plus power creep on what is possibly the last class in the game that needs that.

Your mileage might vary, and if you're bored and think you need new books to boost your interest in the hobby, go ahead and support the change, but to me there is nothing here that improves my game significantly, only stuff that is irrelevant or gets in the way we're already playing.

My mileage does vary. Heavily. Although I see your concern about the actual abilities, the change is for the streamlining of the game. Having a uniform progression in subclas that might open further design space down the road (subclass instead of multiclass etc.).

So what I see is rebuilding the system in a way that removes inconsistencies and bugs at the bottom level that prevents it to work properly without bugfixes.

Over 8 years symptoms of those limitations show (background features mostly unused, class overaching subclasses difficult to implement, combat maneuvers that are informed by a non-combat skill, too worthwhile level dipping and choice overload at level 1).

And calling people bored, because they want the system to be tiedied up seems disingenuous on top.

 

[Li Shenron]

Although I see your concern about the actual abilities, the change is for the streamlining of the game. Having a uniform progression in subclas that might open further design space down the road (subclass instead of multiclass etc.).

That is, in fact, one change I did not mention, when I said almost all are for me a change for the worse. I was in favor of a uniform subclass progression since 5e playtest.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

That is, in fact, one change I did not mention, when I said almost all are for me a change for the worse. I was in favor of a uniform subclass progression since 5e playtest.

You can't eat your cake and have it.

Either you change it or you don't.

 

[Li Shenron]

You can't eat your cake and have it.

Either you change it or you don't.

I am aware of that, and I choose not to change it. Uniform progression would be nice but doesn't compensate for the negatives.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I am aware of that, and I choose not to change it. Uniform progression would be nice but doesn't compensate for the negatives.

I see it differently. But I refuse to call that "out of boredom".

 

[Clint_L]

You could support some changes and not others...

That's why they are having a play test and collecting feedback. So you could support uniform level progression but not most of the other class changes. Personally, I take your points but none of the changes really excite or bother me much. I suppose that reinforces your argument about change for the sake of change, which is something WotC needs to watch out for.

 

[Sir Brennen]

Channel Divinity changed from short-rest based to long-rest based -> this is a dealbreaker for me, since the short/long rests core mechanics of 5e works perfectly for my purposes and the way I run adventures

Note that the playtest cleric gets one more Divine Channel right off the bat compared to the 5E, which is pretty much equivalent to getting one back after a short rest. The playtest cleric stays ahead of the existing one in terms of number of Channel Divinitys, having 6 at 18th level compared to 3 for the existing class.

 

[Stalker0]

Life Cleric Preserve life should just heal. It is waay to difficult at the table for people to figure out half their hp, and how many hp they can gain before they hit half hp. Just let them throw out a massive heal. Sure, maybe that means the Barbarian gets healed for 50 hp instead of 15, while the wizard gets 5, and the rogue gets 10 and 20 points gets wasted, but that's fine.

I agree with this. For example in one of the games that I run, players are not allowed to tell each other their hps (nor do I tell them the monsters).

Its a simple chart:
1) Full HP
2) Taken some damage
3) Bloodied (half Hp or less)
4) Unconscious

But the life cleric's ability throws a wrench every time, I basically have to give the players some of that info back or else the ability doesn't really work, which is quite annoying.

 

[Ashrym]

Channel Divinity moved one level earlier -> this means you have 2 resource-based ability to manage at 1st level instead of one (spells), more mandatory complexity already at the start of the game

Channel Divinity changed from short-rest based to long-rest based -> this is a dealbreaker for me, since the short/long rests core mechanics of 5e works perfectly for my purposes and the way I run adventures

Divine Spark -> one more healing options and one more damaging option, the class already has too many of both (especially Life Cleric)

Holy Order -> martial weapon proficiency to potentially every cleric is a bit too good, I'd rather have it exclusive to a very few domains

Blessed Strikes -> besides this being boring (already too many 5.0 domain granted Divine Strike instead of having more variety) now it defaults every Cleric to radiant damage, meaning even less variety

Holy Order (9th level) -> since the three options available are completely different, most likely the second choice ends up being redundant for your character

Divine Intervention -> irrelevant change from 7 days to 2d6/2d4 days, one more number you have to write somewhere and keep track of

Generally speaking this is again mostly change for the sake of change (they MUST publish a 50th years anniversary edition, so they are changing bits only to make the update relevant) plus power creep on what is possibly the last class in the game that needs that.

Your mileage might vary, and if you're bored and think you need new books to boost your interest in the hobby, go ahead and support the change, but to me there is nothing here that improves my game significantly, only stuff that is irrelevant or gets in the way we're already playing.

Channel Divinity: Managing resources earlier or later doesn't change much IME. A person still ends up managing them. I'm also concerned about the short rest vs long rest changes but 2 to 6 per day plus thaumaturge recovering 1 on a short rest seems similar enough overall if a player wants that. I suspect most players are going to take protector and thaumaturge for the armor, cantrip, and extra channeling.

Divine Spark: It's extra healing or damage for other clerics than the life cleric, saved resources for the like cleric, and possibly the opportunity to use spells for other than healing for the life cleric. Players with clerics want to use spells for things other than healing and this helps with that option. It's kind of nice to spend a spell slot on a smite spell instead of a healing word. ;-) Plus, it also sucks to not have the opportunity to use channel divinity if there aren't undead around.

Holy Order: This does look pretty good. It's mostly done through subclass already, however, so it's not really new. I disagree that having 2 choices is redundant. Any cleric can use 2 out of 3 of those options.

Divine Intervention: This ability has always sucked and play test version doesn't seem to change that. It caters to dice roller addiction and players hoping to get lucky with those rolls. It's better when a person can auto-succeed the check but the recharge is limiting.

I'm not pushing for a new edition and am not bored with this one. If the new edition insists on those shared spell lists I'll very likely stick with what I have now. Shared mechanics can negatively impact the uniqueness of each class in a class based system so not a fan so far.