D&D 5E Cleric questions about Oct 29 Packet

[Larrin]

Seems to me like a compromise that doesn't help anyone. Grognards can still complain about laser clerics and everyone else gets a more complex system to manage, fewer interesting options, and less variation in spell selection.

I concur. Options other than lazers is good, great even. They didn't give any. They locked you in. You're at-will is a package deal, take it all or leave it all.

At will wise:

If you want at-will combat magic, apparently you are a sun cleric. No other choices. Not an improvement.

Everyone else, you can have a basic attack with a weapon.
Where does the 'cleric at-will magic' come in? If someone is dying you can make a weapon attack AND cure itty-bitty wounds, at-will, in the same turn. Lets see your lazer cleric do that (He actually can't ).

The idea seems to be, most clerics will be heavily armored, simple-weaponed, melee fighters. In most of combat, they hit things. Sometimes they get to cast magic. Its similar to older editions, but its hard to go back to when, conceivably, you could be a cleric every round....

 

[mlund]

The cleric 0-level spells will need some work in another pass. Maybe a bless weapon, close wounds, shield of faith, and whatnot as Words of Power - simple buffs or reaction effects so that the cleric can do some minor blessing every round in combat - +1 to AC for that attack, +1 damage with that weapon this round, instantly reduce that hit by 1d4 damage - those seem reasonable. Damage increases or decreases could go up gradually by level.

That's one thing I think the 0-level wizard and cleric stuff could use, some scaling damage to stay relevant as a fall-back at higher levels.

- Marty Lund

 

[Wepwawet]

I really don't like this new iteration of Cleric for one only reason: universal armour proficiency.

Basically we're back to the previous editions where Clerics are all carbon copies of each other, chainmail+mace medic fighters with a few minor differences (like the use of a few spells)

 

[eprieur]

Even though I think the cleric change absolutly suck in this packet overall, the main thing about the healer cleric is this:

Disciple of Life: You get to heal 2+the spell level (doesn't work on the level 0 one). This is the main thing that make the healer cleric a better healer. Once you have that you pick the lvl 3/9 feats that let you heal more per day.

Domain spells don't matter since you will be casting heals anyway unless you choose to suck.

The laser cleric feel simply badly designed. When he cast a heal spell he cannot attack unless he also pick strenght or dex as a secondary stat. Or he can do low level borderline broken stuff like go into a room full of goblins, cast command on the boss and instantly kill all the goblins in a 10 feet radius from him (they take 3 damage).

Protector is worthless, trickster could be cool, the 'Dex cleric' you pick another skill and can have fun with your illusion. You can still cast heal and attack with a short bow for 1D8 + dex if you are an elf (can't use longbow it seem).

Lastly the warbringer get access to heavy weapons, so you can attack with a battle axe for 1D10 or a greataxe for 2D6 if you are a dwarf and do decent damage while you cast your healing spells. You don't really need wisdom at all since healing does'nt require it and you will only be casting those anyway. You can concentrate on strenght/consti like real man do and be the poor man fighter (that can cast heal).

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Overall I do like the new cleric.

I am not sure about turn undead. And maybe words of power should allow for orisons as well as weapon attacks.

But otherwise, it seems ok. (Maybe cut down armor proficiency for some clerics down... the trickster has dexterity as a main stat, the lightbringer could have an ability that allows him to wear no armor)

 

[I'm A Banana]

I was just going to ignore weapons and rely on spells

Is there anything stopping you from filling your slots chock full o' Lance of Faith or Inflict Light Wounds or whatever and going to town?

 

[eprieur]

You need some at-wills or a decent melee/range attack in the first few levels or you will run of things to do fast.

Only the laser cleric get lance of faith as an at-will. And the problem with that cleric is you can't heal and do a lance of faith in the same around since it's 2 spells. This mean that the rounds you are healing you will be very inefficient compared to the other clerics.

Even as a healer cleric you should take strenght at least up to 14 and attack in melee when you can.

One question I had is if the warbringer being proficient with martial and heavy weapons, does that include martial range weapons and heavy range weapons?

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

I dunno, it helps me.

Keep in mind that the reason they're doing it this way is to make it easy to modularize. Instead of saying "all 0-level spells are at will," they're saying "some characters can cast some 0-level spells at will." So I can have a character that only casts daily spells with preparation, and you can have a character that has a bunch of at-will spells and spontaneous spell point casting, or whatever.

Of course, the make-your-own-domain/tradition guidelines and the modular magic systems don't exist in the current playtest, but that's the direction they're going.

To my mind, it'd be simpler for everyone if all orisons were at-will by default (and each domain gave you a unique one or improved an existing one), and there was one or more "special" domain/deity (knowledge?) that treated orisons like normal spells (giving you access to the whole list but only letting you prep and cast 3-4 per day).

Anyway, if you can make your own domain, you presumably get to pick two at-will orisons... which means you get exactly as much at-will juice as the last playtest's cleric, but with the added complexity of tracking 0-level slots full of orisons you never use.

I also agree that armor proficiency and other stuff should be built back into the domains.