cleric tactics

[billd91]

the spont casting isnt too huge an ability, i only have so many spell slots, and they're usually used for buff spells.with a smattering of non combat type things (mind raid, speak with dead, commune, etc) if i burn slots on domain casting, i lose some of my buffs.

I doubt that being able to spontaneously cast from the domain list would be much of a campaign breaker for all domains. That's largely what a healing domain caster can do anyway, at least for lower level spells.
But since there are some domains that do seem to be set up to allow the cleric to have that one oddball spell in his repertoire for limited casting, I can see why some domains might not be suitable for it (especially that Trickery domain with Time Stop sitting there). At least not for swapping out a general spell for a domain spell slot. If this were limited to allowing you to spontaneously cast from any of your 3 domains using your single domain spell slot per level, then I don't think there'd be a compelling argument against it. The spell selection is still quite limited.

Looking at the PrC, it doesn't seem that out of whack. Adding wisdom bonus to melee rolls could be a bit sticky since the cleric is going to be investing like crazy in his wisdom but, since fighters invest majorly in strength and have a better BAB anyway, I don't see that as a major problem. The wisdom bonus does replace the strength bonus, right? If it adds to the strength bonus, that's a problem. It should be one or the other.
Strength also still governs damage, right? If not, that's another potential problem. Usually stat-swapping for melee combat only affects attack rolls and not damage (see Weapon Finesse for an example).

As far as the rest of the stuff the character does, 3.5 has made some significant fixes. Tenser's Transformation has been overhauled so that this character build is not such a problem. It won't stack with Divine Power with respect to BAB increases (like it does in 3.0) and with no temporary dice full of hit points (though it now does include a modest Con bonus). Note also that the strength bonuses for Divine Power and Tenser's Transformation do not stack even in 3.0 since they're both listed as enhancement bonuses.
Note also that the character's Tenser's Transformation buff must be the last buff made until it wears off since it prevents any and all casting while in effect. No curative spells allowed. The DM should rigorously enforce that.
And the character is, essentially, on an attacking rampage. It says in the SRD that the character attacks his opponents if he can, bare-handed if necessary. I would interpret that to mean that every round must include some kind of attack, whether a standard attack or full attack. So, no double moves. No withdrawing. No aiding another. No quaffing of potions. Shoot or swing are your choices. The DM should enforce that too.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Three things you and your DM could implement to make things go better.

1. No spontaneous Domain spell casting. It's an epic level feat for one domain as others have pointed out. Also, it really is unbalancing--it basically turns clerics into sorcerors with an (only slightly) more limited spontaneous spell selection, the same number of spells per day, a more useful spellcasting attribute, and without the 1 level delay in learning higher level spells.

2. Eliminate Assassin's Senses. It's a part of all sorts of broken combos that I've observed on the smackdown threads and I've come to the conclusion that, in all those combos, Assassin's Senses is the problem.

3. Your DM can start playing his bad guys appropriately. You cast Time Stop and buff yourself? Eat a Chained targetted Greater Dispelling (What the heck, let's target all your items and everyone else in the party too; there's enough targets--Mordenkeinen's Disjunction would work too but bad guys are loathe to trash treasure and the kind of treasure destruction regular use of that spell would bring would lead to a spiralling reduction in character wealth and would make the game less fun). Or give his villains Reactive Counterspell and Improved Counterspell. Time Stop? Forget about it.

Or have his villains do the same thing. You cast time stop and buff. The dragon says "boo" and his chain contingency Righteous Might and Tenser's Transformation kick in. Then he full attacks, power attacking for 10 and still has enough attack bonus to hit on a five with his weakest attack.

Or he could just have his villains keep out of your way. Boots of Striding and Springing+Spring Attack+reach weapon+combat reflexes+large and in charge and/or monk levels. Your spells will run out before you catch up with the bad guy.

 

[Thanee]

What's the problem in handling this character!?

Mordenkainen's Disjunction gets rid of EVERYTHING that makes him so brutal in a second!

About Miracle... I understand this spell that you cannot choose the effect, but your deity does. You just request something and then something along those lines is granted.

Bye
Thanee

 

[melkoriii]

billd91

Thats what I was thinking too.

To Spont cast all domain spells in ANY spell slot is Having to mem your good Cleric spells, have the ability to spont cast Heals and add on the Sorcerer Class for free.

So very munchkin.

I am curious to hear how likuidice has handled the Stacking issues for the buff spells.

All in All sounds like new DM losing control and player abusing it.

 

[Darklone]

I had no problem with a houseruled cleric that was able to spontaneously cast his domain spells instead of prepared ones. But:
This cleric didn't have spontaneous healing and he didn't get a third domain

 

[Nail]

holy order of the stars:
....10th can spont cast from any domain he owns...

At this point, I say "cut the newbie DM a break". He goofed. Simple enough. Re-write the PrC to work. Rule Zero that puppy an' move on.

Secondly, the DM needs to use the same kind of munchkinism he allows with players. If he makes a uber-PrC for you, he sure as heck can make one for the bad guys.

Hey, Munchkinism ain't bad. You just have to have "appropriate challanges" for whatever type of character you play. If there's not always someone out there who's tougher, then something's wacked.

 

[Nifft]

Gotta leap on the spontaneous casting bandwagon. I *do* allow spontaneous casting of Domains IMC, but that's because I re-balanced all the Domains.

-- N

 

[Storminator]

billd91

Thats what I was thinking too.

To Spont cast all domain spells in ANY spell slot is Having to mem your good Cleric spells, have the ability to spont cast Heals and add on the Sorcerer Class for free.

So very munchkin.

I am curious to hear how likuidice has handled the Stacking issues for the buff spells.

All in All sounds like new DM losing control and player abusing it.

Actually it sounds to me like no one in the game was really ready for near-epic play. Abilities turn out to be better than they looked. Threats that seemed tough get whacked. Encounters that should be nasty and cool are over in a round.

Par for the course for your first high level game.

DMs always have a tough time, because it's hard to come up with EL 20 fights, and hard to remember all the abilities that come with those levels, and hard to discover the optimal combos for NPCs you're likely to play once.

Our DM has had NPCs (18th level...) he slaved over for hours, only to have them die during the surprise round.

Not much to do I'm afraid, but wrap up the campaign and move on.

PS

 

[Juggernaut]

2 words...

ANTIMAGIC FIELD

or possibly 3 words...

DEAD MAGIC ZONE

 

[likuidice]

there are no stacking issues for my buff spells, they all provide differing bonuses, and the strength enhancement bonuses are used as overlapping, highest only counts.
this is our first high level campaign, we all have powerful characters, but we've sure earned them, we've played from 1st to 17th, picking up items and abilities along the way, but we've worked hard to get them.
frankly, i'm 17th level, i get all these cool goodies, even without the prc, i want to use them.
fighters get feats, rogues get sneak attack, casters get spells, if i dont use those spells, or use them sparingly as has been suggested, it's not that much fun, i like having a superhuman character, at least some of the time, the fighter can do all kinds of stuff using his longsword, surely my spells have the same effect? his feats all stack, why can i not use my spells in the same way? they are more powerful than his feats, sure, but i only get limited use of them.
i'm specifically focusing on combat techniques here, outside combat we all have things we're great at to earn our keep, but we should all have the same impact in combat too.