Cleric Version without Undead Turning

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First Post
Undead turning has always bored the pants off of me (and generally, that's not a pretty sight!); that said, is there a Cleric version anywhere that gets rid of undead turning for some other benefits?

For example, nix undead turning, gain martial proficiency?

Nix undead turning, gain an x-tra feat or something?

In general, how powerful do people thing "undead turning" is as an ability, given a typical (not undead-heavy) campaign? Is it worth 1, 2, 3, more feats/abilities?
 

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Martial Proficiency would be too much, as would be a third Domain. I think the Cleric is OK as is, even when he never uses his turning.

I could imagine giving him a familiar or animal companion (at half wizard or druid level, respectively). And I would not get rid of turning, but of channeling positive/negative energy, which means no spontaneous healing or inflicting wounds.
 

My suggestion is to take Divine feats and use those with your turning attempts. If you don't want the player to have to "waste" a feat to use them, then replace the undead-turning application with ONE of the feats (player's choice).

Thus a cleric with 14 Cha could be able to (Divine Might) add +2 (Cha mod) on his damage rolls 5 times per day for one round duration each. Or add +2 (Cha mod) to his shield bonus 5 times per day for half his character level in rounds.
 

I removed the Turn/Rebuke Undead power from all clerics and simply relegated it to certain deities (in other words, you have to worship God XXX to be able to turn undead or God YYY to rebuke undead).

I replaced it by granting all clerics (that dont get it from their deity) a bonus feat. So far it seems to work.
 



James McMurray said:
Dragon #311 had several alternate clerics in it. Almost all of them lack turning ability.

They also all lack Domains- at least, most of them. I'm playing one of the variant Clerics right now (the Arcane Disciple), and soon after making the character I realized that all of the variant classes in that book really really suck, balance-wise.
 

The loss of domains can be fixed by stepping into PrCs later. Depending on your deity, the loss of two domains may not even be noticed.

A brief summary of the classes:

Ancestral Speaker: You lose domains, but gain the ability to add your charisma bonus to a skill for a while, a number f times per day dependent on level. Or you can instead Commune 1/day (with no XP cost) one you hit 9th level. You also get Improved Resurrection, which makes people who lose a level when you raise them not lose as much XP. They still lose a level, but don't drop ot he halfway opint, instead dropping tot he 3/4 mark.

Arcane Disiple: Lower Hit Die, no domains. Get bonus feats like a wizard, except the first level one doen't hav to be scribe scroll. You also chos an arcane spell every level that you can cast. This is the one that UltimaGabe is playing. I haven't seen it in action so I don't know why he oes't like it. It looks balanced to me as long as you realize you aren't playing a cleric, you're playing a cleric / wizard hybrid. In other words, don't try to buff and run into combat.

Aspirant: lose domains. 1/day (more as you gain levels) you can convert any one cleric spell into any other cleric spell of equal or lower level. Kind of a reverse spontaneous cure casting. Also gets AC bonuses and the ability to counterspell divine spells without expending spell slots. Perfect Self is achieved at 20th level

Benevolent: Sponataneous casting of many different healing and healing related spells at the expense of domains. You can also bestow the Luck Doain's power onto people for 24 hours, once per day per 4 levels.

Crusader: Bonuses when attacking worhshipers of a specific deity you chose at first level. You can also turn or destroy followers of that deity instead of undead. Fighter bonu feats at 3rd level and every 5 levels afer that. Can Smite foes that are not your alignment, not your deity's alignment, and do not worship your deity 1/day per 5 levels.

Evangelist: Loses turning ability, but gains more domains as you gain levels. Knows and casts spells as a sorcerer.

The Crusader looks to be very strong in certain campaigns. For instance, I wouldn't allo it in a Return tot he Temple of Elemental Evil or Bloodstone Mines campaign, because of the ability to turn the vast majority fo the foes you'll be facing.

The Evangelist is very nice, especially if you like spontaneous casters already. At 20th level you have the same slots per day as a sorcerer, but over twice the spells known. Taking the Healing domain will give you all the healing you'll ever need.

The others look ok to me, although the Ancestral Speaker might be too weak in a combat heavy campaign.
 

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