Clerics can't heal (NPCs)?

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

...It's an ability available by level 1 if you take the right class levels in 3.5. I dont see people posting about how game breaking the Totemist is, though. AKA, I dont think it's a huge issue.

Considering we've already been told by one of the designers (You DO realise Chris Simms is one of the designers, right?) that all NPC's have healing surges, your continued insistence that only PC's have them is quite amazing, really.

I think he just doesn't want risk being fooled by Chris Simms into accidentally buying the 4E books and playing the game just because Chris claimed that there were Healing Surges for NPCs. Khur/Chris might be lying, after all. For all we know, the 4E rulebooks are just the OD&D rulebooks, minus every rule that at least barely seemed to make sense and with new art-work (predominantly dragonborn with boobs). The cool rules the designers constantly imply or have described on the DDXP are just made up on their spare time and will not actually be in the book. They don't want anyone else to have fun with them. Photocopying and printing rules is what photography is to humans - it steals your soul!

Or he just missed it.

 

[Derren]

Oh, sorry that I expected that you know that Healing Surges can only be used when they are triggered and that the only way to trigger them yourself without outside help is Second Wind which NPCs still might not have.

But now I know that you are unable to make the connection Second Wind = Way to use Healing Surges and will post accordingly.

 

[hong]

Oh, sorry that I expected that you, when you argue about 4E rules, know that Healing Surges can only be used when they are triggered and that the only way to trigger them yourself without outside help is Second Wind which NPCs still might not have.

Bad Derren. The goalposts were <--- that way!

But now I know that you are unable to make the connection Second Wind = Way to use Healing Surges and will post accordingly.

There are many ways to use healing surges, besides second wind. I expect that you will acknowledge this and post accordingly.

 

[Lacyon]

Oh, sorry that I expected that you,, when you argue about 4E rules, know that Healing Surges can only be used when they are triggered and that the only way to trigger them yourself without outside help is Second Wind which NPCs still might not have.

But now I know that you are unable to make the connection Second Wind = Way to use Healing Surges and will post accordingly.

Try reading yourself:

In my game, the 3rd-level PCs have an NPC elf archer (from the MM) with them as a guide. They've had little trouble healing him, since the party's warlord can trigger the archer's healing surges. The archer himself can use his own surges outside of combat.

The NPCs only need a Second Wind or other special ability if they're going to use healing surges in combat.

 

[Derren]

The NPCs only need a Second Wind or other special ability if they're going to use healing surges in combat.

Which is exactly the advantage PCs have over NPCs. Without a leader all the (two?) Healing Surges a NPC has in combat is useless. PCs on the other hand can use at least one of their Healing Surges in combat, two if they are dwarves.

 

[Green Knight]

Having Healing Surges doesn't automatically mean that NPCs have a Second Wind ability (=way to use them).

Bulette number one dives into the earth so rapidly that the heroes around it don’t get opportunity attacks. Safely in the ground, it heals some damage

You really think they're going to have Healing Surges, but not actually be able to use them?

 

[D'karr]

You really think they're going to have Healing Surges, but not actually be able to use them?

Why would they? It would break the carefully crafted but nonsensical argument, which has already been disproven by one of the designers. Tilting at windmills is fun...

 

[Lacyon]

Which is exactly the advantage PCs have over NPCs. Without a leader all teh Healing Surges a NPC has in combat is useless.

It is still only an assumption on your part that NPCs don't get a Second Wind.

Even if it's true, it's just more hp that the PC has to spend a standard action to get instead of starting the fight with. PCs have had more hp than NPCs for a while now.

PCs on the other hand can use at least one of their Healing Surges in combat, two if they are a dwarf.

I haven't seen anything which gives the dwarf an extra Second Wind in a single encounter. He gets to use it as a minor action instead of standard, though, which is a big deal.

 

[D.Shaffer]

...Yeah.

Oh, sorry that I expected that you know that Healing Surges can only be used when they are triggered and that the only way to trigger them yourself without outside help is Second Wind which NPCs still might not have.

In my game, the 3rd-level PCs have an NPC elf archer (from the MM) with them as a guide. They've had little trouble healing him, since the party's warlord can trigger the archer's healing surges. The archer himself can use his own surges outside of combat.

Like I said...Amazing.

 

[Derren]

It is still only an assumption on your part that NPCs don't get a Second Wind.

Its also an assumption that NPCs do get a Second Wind ability. Considering that it is rather official that PCs and NPCs are build according to different rules it means that just because the PCs have it the NPCs don't necessarily have it too. And as it was pointed out, even without a Second Wind ability those surges can be used, just not in combat.

Have you heared of any instance from DDXP where a monster healed itself with a Second Wind?

I haven't seen anything which gives the dwarf an extra Second Wind in a single encounter. He gets to use it as a minor action instead of standard, though, which is a big deal.

My mistake, I somehow thought that Dwarfs could use a second 2nd Wind.