Clerics with no gods

[reveal]

What grants a paladin's, ranger's, or druid's divine spells?

Quasqueton

I would assume the paladin's diety grants them their powers. As far as rangers and druids, if you don't want to specify a diety, could be granted their powers by nature itself. So, ya, I see your point.

However, I am still doubtful that an "ideal" can grant powers. I see it more of an entity granting powers, like a diety or mother nature herself.

 

[HellHound]

I think WOTC made a bad decision allowing godless clerics and made that slope towards playing D&D like a video game that much more slippery.

I find it interesting that returning to the old concepts of D&D is often seen as becoming more like a video game.

 

[Gentlegamer]

This pretty much describes the paladin - servant of LG.

Exactly. Clerics and Paladins can give observance to certain gods that also are servants of the shared alignment, but don't have to gain their class benefits from them. This can also create interesting interplay among principles as the two dimensions (Law/Chaos/Neutrality and Good/Evil/Neutrality) are followed or emphasized to varying degrees by the cleric with resultingly rich interactions with the higher spiritual beings of alignment.

 

[The_Universe]

By the RAW, a cleric does not *have* to worship a deity. How often do you see this concept played?

How about for those Players who don't want to play a cleric because they don't like the whole "worship a god" thing? Is the non-god cleric an acceptable character?

Quasqueton

I've never seen it, but I would have allowed it in my last D&D game if the concept had been half-way decent. Of course, in my homebrew (see story hour link) Clerics are White Mages, rather than agents of a particular god or goddess, anyway. That being said, most White Mages recieved their education from or naturally gravitated to the priesthood, so that distinction was not necessarily obvious to the players.

 

[HellHound]

However, I am still doubtful that an "ideal" can grant powers. I see it more of an entity granting powers, like a diety or mother nature herself.

Is mother nature an entity?

The druidic faith in nature has never been fully detialed in d20 / D&D, and thus it reads more as faith in nature than the blessing of some deity of nature.

 

[the Jester]

I allow clerics of certain philosophies imc- those with enough of a 'belief force' behind them to power clerics, basically.

As a dm, I don't want the players to be able to combine any two domains willy-nilly (at least, not without prestige classes, feats or something else of a similar nature). Don't like that, no sir. I don't see much reason for someone to have the Hate and Healing domains, for instance.

 

[Quasqueton]

I would assume the paladin's diety grants them their powers.

Paladin's do not have a deity, by the RAW. Choosing a deity for a paladin is like choosing a deity for a fighter or wizard.

Quasqueton

 

[reveal]

I don't see a mandatory entity granting psionic powers, sorcerous magics, bardic spells, wizardly power... so why divine magic? Divine magic, in my view, is the magic of faith, so why does it require some deity to hand down the magic when no other magic type requires the assistance of a deity? There isn't a deity for the core druid either, 'just' nature. Does nature grant the magic, the druid's faith in nature, or some deity pretending to be nature for today?

Well, psionics are a power of the mind, sorcerous magic is from the power within, bardic magic is from force of personality, and wizardly power is from years of study.

I do agree that divine magic is a magic of faith. And I do agree that nature itself gives the powers to druids and rangers. I just believe that there has to be a tangible entity that says "You, cleric, now have this power."

But that's just me and if a player wanted to be in my campaign without a diety, that's fine with me.

 

[Einan]

Isn't it a little ironic that people are poo-pooing the idea of a non-god worshipping cleric because it doesn't make sense? Because elves, halflings riding dogs, half-orcs and magic in general makes a lot of sense, right?

Lighten up. It's a role-playing GAME not a role-playing Philosophy.

einan

 

[reveal]

Is mother nature an entity?

The druidic faith in nature has never been fully detialed in d20 / D&D, and thus it reads more as faith in nature than the blessing of some deity of nature.

Yes, I believe mother nature is an entity.