Clerics without gods = huh?!

[EricNoah]

I remember in 2E being really intrigued by the idea of clerics without gods, and developed a lot of religions based on a "philosophy" or a "force" as described in the Complete Cleric's Handbook, So it's certainly not a "kewl" 3E thing. Whether it's appropriate would totally depend on the campaign setting, of course.

A classic example of a setting that uses this concept is Dark Sun -- the clerics worship either "nature" (and thus are druids) or they worship one of the four classical elements (and are clerics) or they worship one of the sorcerer-kings (god-like creatures who were mortals once). It works because the setting's premise is that the gods have abandoned the world.

It kind of depends on what you think a "god" is, in a sense, and this could be different for different settings. If a "god" is something vast, mysterious, uncommunacative and unknowable it might be for all intents and purposes a force or drawn upon through a strong belief or philosopy.

One other thing to consider: some families don't allow their children to even pretend to worship gods as part of a game. I came from such a family. My dad, a minister, made it clear to me that we could play cleric characters but we couldn't be "devoted to a god." It ended up not being a big deal, and it was just the way we did it.

 

[Psychotic Jim]

The way I always saw it was that the gods got their power not from a divine source but from the belief and veneration their worshippers put forth, like Guilt Puppy said. Certain religions and philosophies might not put faith in a particular god, but rather channel this "belief energy" into different ideological forces, like general concepts such as "Good" or "Evil" or "Strength". Thus the "power of faith" has some gravity to it. Instead of channeling his faith into a god, a godless priest would draw strength from the belief of people in a specific ideal or philosophy.

 

[WayneLigon]

One other thing to consider: some families don't allow their children to even pretend to worship gods as part of a game.

Well, that was going to be my fourth idea of why the concept was introduced.

 

[jasper]

The way I took it, if the player did not like the gawds listed.
Then he could choose two domains, etc. And it was gawd not listed.
So you could have a god str and good and call it Thor
Or evil and trickery call it Loki
or healing and light call it Nurse Krackit.

 

[caudor]

I've always taken it that Godless Clerics believe in the power of their Domains (You can believe that Strength is the most important aspect of life, for example) and Gods that agree with you give you your powers. For instance, if you had a Realms Generic Cleric that believed in the Power of Creation, then Selune, Gond and all other deities related to creation are granting you your powers.

I tend to take this view as well. Being able to draw this power is what separates the deity-less cleric from the devout peasant. However, I still think the granting deity keep tabs on what the cleric does with this power.

Should the cleric violate one of the tenets of the deity (even though he doesn't believe in the deity), I'm sure he can still be spanked --in a way appropriate to the deity. With power comes responsibility, or failing that...a price.

 

[Psion]

The way I always saw it was that the gods got their power not from a divine source but from the belief and veneration their worshippers put forth, like Guilt Puppy said.

I don't mind (and employ) the idea that divine power springs from faith. But IMC, what gives this faith power is the coalescing of the faith of many, until the ideology associated with the faith takes tangible form -- until that point, there is no power associated with the faith the way I run it.

 

[Shallown]

I have a cleric in my campaign who does not worship any single God over another. He prays to each as he sees fit. Usually praying within the domain he needs. If he needs clear skies talk to the weather God. Etc.

His biggest drawback so far is that since he worships no single God he does not have a church of his own. The other God Specific churches pay him respect but he is not one of them. He does not find himself benefiting as he would were he a worshiper of a single God. He also manages to avoid the rivalries as well.

My Pantheon gains power from peoples emotions/deeds. When someone lies it strengthens the God of lies regardless of who they worship. This is the reason Evil Gods have power and still exist. Everyone's small amount of evil or at least potential for evil keeps them alive.

Beating this fact home to those in the group who know this makes for an interesting game. Reminding them when they decieve someone that the God of deception is now just a littlw stronger especially when that is the God they may be in conflict with.

Makes for a fun game for me.

Later

 

[Voadam]

Domains do not need to be the focus of a godless cleric character's belief. They can simply be the spiritual powers they have developed, some are simply limited as far as who can develop them (the alignment ones).

I think of it as philosophical monks, "After studying the Tao, you will be able to align yourself with the Will of Heaven and make blessed weapons."

 

[Zaukrie]

The Book of the Righteous deals with Paladins and Clerics who worship the pantheon of good Gods. They do not worship the individual gods. There is a chapter on how this works. Between this chapter and the chapter on creating holy warriors from scratch, it is worth the money. For the unbelievable detail of the mythology and all of the other chapters, it is the best read of any rule book I've ever bought.

 

[kenjib]

One possible take on it:

Since a cleric is still following strong beliefs of some sort, his presence in the world and his actions are guaranteed to benefit one of the gods in some way. One of the gods takes notice of this and decides to grant power to such a cleric, even though the cleric does not know who it comes from, because it is to his benefit to do so.

While some clerics may think they are godless, none of them truly are.