Climb Check Oddities

[doktorstick]

Do you find it odd that if you climb with full-plate and tower shield, you get a huge armor check penalty, but if you strip down and strap it on your back you can climb with ease?

A mid-level thief, naked, can carry the hoard of Smaug (up to maximum weight allowance) on his back crossing a ceiling with wet handholds and not even have the slightest chance of falling. Put on a chain shirt and now, all of the sudden, he can fall (Climb +22, DC 27 without armor; no chance at falling; vs. Climb +20, DC 27, now falls on a 1 or 2).

Why doesn't the Climb skill have penalties for weight like Swim? Swim doesn't even have an armor check penalty... just weight.

/ds

EDIT: s/leather armor/chain shirt/

 

[Crothian]

It's not the weight that is interferring with the climb, it's the process of wearing the armor interferring. Leather armor has no armor check penalty, so I have no idea where that example is coming from.

 

[Artoomis]

Do you find it odd that if you climb with full-plate and tower shield, you get a huge armor check penalty, but if you strip down and strap it on your back you can climb with ease?

A mid-level thief, naked, can carry the hoard of Smaug (up to maximum weight allowance) on his back crossing a ceiling with wet handholds and not even have the slightest chance of falling. Put on leather armor and now, all of the sudden, he can fall (Climb +22, DC 27 without armor; no chance at falling; vs. Climb +20, DC 27, now falls on a 1 or 2).

Why doesn't the Climb skill have penalties for weight like Swim? Swim doesn't even have an armor check penalty... just weight.

/ds

Wrong-o buddy boy Weight penalties to skills mirror armor penalties (but they don't stack, you take whichever is worse). you've overlooked the encumbrance rule:

If you want to determine whether your character's gear is heavy enough to slow him or her down (more than the armor already does), total the weight of all his or her armor, weapons, and gear. Compare this total to the character's Strength on Table: Carrying Capacity.

If your character is wearing armor, use the worse figure (from armor or from weight) for each category. Do not stack the penalties.

From

Table: Carrying Loads

A Medium Load = Max Dex +3; Check Penalty -3; Speed 20 (reduced from 30) or 15 (reduced from 20); Run x4

A Heavy Load = Max Dex +1; Check Penalty -6; Speed 20 (reduced from 30) or 15 (reduced from 20); Run x3

Let's say your rogue has a 12 str:

12 STR Light: up to 43 lb. Medium: 44-86 lb. Heavy: 87-130 lb.

Full Plate = 50 lbs
Tower Shield = 45 lbs

So he'd be heavily loaded if he took it off - the same effect as if he was wearing it.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

While it is theorectically possible for someone to have lower encumberance penalties carrying his armor rather than wearing, it just doesn't happen often in real play.

Heavy armor, shield, weapons, and a couple skins of water alone are going to be close to 90 lbs. Throw in standard gear like rope, bedroll, spare weapons, food, etc. without being excessive, and you will have 130-150 lbs. It adds up quickly. Unless you are exceptionally strong you will be in that heavy load zone anyway.

You also have to remember that the DM should penalize your effective encumberance if the weight is not properly stored. You are not going to fit 50 lbs. of heavy armor into a nonmagical backpack.

From the SRD:
Table: Carrying Capacity
Light Medium Heavy
Strength Load Load Load
-------- ----- ------ -----
14 STR up to 58 lb. 59-116 lb. 117-175 lb.


Table: Carrying Loads
Max Check ----- Speed -------
Load Dex Penalty (30 ft.) (20 ft) Run
---- --- ------- -------- ------- ---
Medium +3 -3 20 ft. 15 ft. x4
Heavy +1 -6 20ft. 15 ft. x3


You compare the regular ACP with the load-based check penalty, and use whichever is worse.

These limits make a big difference at low levels before you have magic items to compensate. A Rogue or Ranger may have 30-40 lbs. of weapns and armor. Food and water can be another 10-15 lbs. That doesn't leave much room if he wants to have a 30' movement rate.

 

[doktorstick]

Re: Re: Climb Check Oddities

Wrong-o buddy boy Weight penalties to skills mirror armor penalties (but they don't stack, you take whichever is worse). you've overlooked the encumbrance rile:

Yes I did! Thanks a bunch.

/ds

 

[doktorstick]

Under closer examination, though, the numbers do not seem steep enough. A character that has a strength to wear full plate and carry a tower shield and still be lightly loaded has around a -8 (I don't recall the numbers off-hand) ACP. He can remove that and strap it on his back and have a 0 ACP.

That still seems wrong. It looks like WotC tried to compensate for it, but didn't quite get it right. Does anyone have any opinons on the Climb skill in general wrt to weight?

/ds

 

[Artoomis]

I think it works quite well, my self.

Let's say you have Full Plate and a Tower shield - that's 95 lbs.

Now let's add in about 45 lbs of misc gear - so now we are at 140 lbs.

The armor check penalty will be -16 if you insist on having the shield readied while climbing (a very silly thing to do) - strap that sucker on your back and you are at - 6.

By weight alone, you'd be at -6 until you went to a 16 strength.

So, with a 15 or less strength, you'd gain nothing by carrying instead of wearing your armor. This seems okay by me.

Further, to have no penalty, you'd need a 21 strength.

This seems reasonable to me.

 

[hong]

Having just completed a marathon session of NWN where I exited the lich's dungeon with 5 suits of armour and a boatload of weapons in my pack, I find this thread rather funny.

 

[Artoomis]

Having just completed a marathon session of NWN where I exited the lich's dungeon with 5 suits of armour and a boatload of weapons in my pack, I find this thread rather funny.

Was your movement slowed? I suppose you might not even have noticed.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I think it works okay. Not perfectly, but good enough.

If your 21 Str Half-Orc wants to take off all his armor and painstakingly strap it to his back before climbing the cliff, I think he has earned those lower penalties.

The ACPs are probably okay. If there is really a glitch it is with the coarseness of the load-based penalties. The "problem" only exists because PCs sometimes have inconveniently heroic Str scores.