Cloud of Knives kills minions?

[SadisticFishing]

So you are still of the opinion that the full minion rules on page 55 of the DMG are never intended to be used?

They are, but they aren't the "full" minion rules, because minions clearly state "a missed attack never damages a minion".

 

[KarinsDad]

Your arguments have as much merit as mine - no more though. We are both reading the same rules, but I consider the "reminder" text in the Minion box as a rule, whereas you read it as a reminder of a rule. That is the only difference between our opinions.

Actually, I not only read it as a reminder, I also see no way in which it is significantly different. The difference you claim is artificial and forced. IMO.

The actual rule you are quoting does not explicitly indicate what you claim it does. What you are doing is called making an inference (as opposed to an explicit interpretation). And, it's not a very solid one at that.

We all understand how you are making the inference, it just seems that based on all of the Minion and other rules concerning To Hit, Miss, and Effect, the inference is in error.

 

[SadisticFishing]

There is no inference.

A missed attack never damages a minion.

I rest my entire argument on that statement.

 

[Arbitrary]

--------------

pg 4, Monster Manual

Level and Role

The level of the monster and the role it fills are given in the top right-hand corner of the statistics block. The Dungeon Master's Guide explains more about monster level and role and how to build encounters with them.

---------------

The Monster Manual doesn't even have minion information in it. Want to know about minions? Go pick up your DMG. We'll tell you all about them there. The Monster Manual lacks the full text rules.

 

[KarinsDad]

There is no inference.

A missed attack never damages a minion.

I rest my entire argument on that statement.

And an effect is not a missed attack.

Your argument is null and void.

 

[Rith the Wanderer]

They are, but they aren't the "full" minion rules, because minions clearly state "a missed attack never damages a minion".

But one says that "Damage from an attack or from a source that doesn’t require an attack roll (such as the paladin’s divine challenge or the fighter’s cleave) destroys a minion." Effects don't require attack rolls ; as in, you can use them without making any attack roll. This contradicts your interpretation of the "missed attack never damages a minion."

 

[KarinsDad]

--------------
The Monster Manual doesn't even have minion information in it. Want to know about minions? Go pick up your DMG. We'll tell you all about them there. The Monster Manual lacks the full text rules.

Monster Manual page 282.

With regard to actual rules, the rest of the Minion text in the DMG is mostly fluff.

The rules are in both books.

 

[Iceman75]

This thread sadens me

It is really sad when people refuse to read how to use powers and fail to understand the basics. A power is made of one or more of the following sections, Hit, miss, and EFFECT. (Among others)They are seperate and they are defined in what they mean. Each happens to have a paragraph or more on say page 54. If people refuse to read and then try to teach others based on ignorance then I can't help but to feel sorry for those that learn for this kind of teaching.

EFFECT: Many powers produce effects that take place regardless
of whether your attack roll succeeds, and other powers have effects that occur without an attack roll being required.​

 

[Arbitrary]

Ok.

I use Stinking Cloud. There are two targets that are brutes. One is hit and the other is missed. The next turn a Minion moves and enters the cloud.

The Stinking Cloud was an attack that missed. It hit too, but it also missed, and a missed attack can NEVER damage a minion. Never!

Are you willing to accept an absurd situation like that?

 

[ForbidenMaster]

Ok.

I use Stinking Cloud. There are two targets that are brutes. One is hit and the other is missed. The next turn a Minion moves and enters the cloud.

The Stinking Cloud was an attack that missed. It hit too, but it also missed, and a missed attack can NEVER damage a minion. Never!

Are you willing to accept an absurd situation like that?

Same thing with Coudkill. Cloudkill! The OPs interpretation is simply absurd.