Cloud of Knives kills minions?

[GoLu]

a power that misses cannot damage a minion

(emphasis mine)
Nope. Try again. That's not how the minion rule reads.

 

[Arbitrary]

The entire statement is sarcastic.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Look, this imaginary power does immediate damage as its effect, therefore if you miss with this power, and a power that misses cannot damage a minion, you miss with that power and the minion lives.

An attack that misses cannot damage a minion.

Power 1 consists solely of an attack. If the attack hits, the minion dies. If the attack misses, the minion doesn't die.

Power 2 consists of an attack and an effect. If the attack hits, the minion dies. If the attack misses, the attack doesn't kill the minion... but the effect does, and the minion dies.

Effects are ongoing, separate components of a power. They are not part of Hit or Miss. They have their own distinction.

Er, right. Isn't that what my example was intended to illustrate?

They're separate components of a power; they're not part of Hit or Miss, or, indeed, part of an attack at all. Hit and Miss are both results of an attack; Effect is not the result of an attack, whether or not it is produced by an 'Attack Power'.

-Hyp.

 

[Rith the Wanderer]

Your post was a little confusing Arbitrary. It seemed to be contradictory, even if it was intended to be sarcastic.

If there is a point you are trying to make for others to respond to, could you reword it?

If you were just trying to funny, then alls well that ends well I guess.

 

[GoLu]

Ah. I missed that. To be honest, I'm still not seeing it. But I'll happily take your word for it. I am, right now, likely to miss things like that.

 

[Arbitrary]

1 - Minions

Damage from an attack or from a source that doesn’t require an attack roll (such as the paladin’s divine challenge or the fighter’s cleave) also destroys a minion. However, if a minion is missed by an attack that normally deals damage on a miss, it takes no damage.

2 - Effects

Many powers produce effects that take place regardless of whether your attack roll succeeds, and other powers have effects that occur without an attack roll being required.

3 - Conclusion

The Effect component of Cloud of Daggers is a source of damage created that doesn't require an attack roll. Such things do kill minions.

 

[silentounce]

You created a power and worded it extremely carefully to try and win the argument.

Look, this imaginary power does immediate damage as its effect, therefore if you miss with this power, and a power that misses cannot damage a minion, you miss with that power and the minion lives.

It's clever. I'll admit.

But that just isn't how powers are worded and it isn't an accident. Effects are ongoing, separate components of a power. They are not part of Hit or Miss. They have their own distinction.

What about Cleric 19 Fire Storm then, Radiant Brilliance 20, Paladin 19 Righteous Inferno, I'm sure there are more. I'm sure there are more.

 

[Arbitrary]

The Effect of the attack power Firestorm creates a zone. My point with the other, confusing post, was that the power created for the argument was worded in such a way that does not exist.

Effects either provide bonuses, penalties, impose a condition, create a conjuration or create a zone

Hit - Do one thing
Miss - Do something different
Effect - Do 1d6

is not a valid power.

 

[Rith the Wanderer]

The Effect of the attack power Firestorm creates a zone. My point with the other, confusing post, was that the power created for the argument was worded in such a way that does not exist.

Effects either provide bonuses, penalties, impose a condition, create a conjuration or create a zone

Hit - Do one thing
Miss - Do something different
Effect - Do 1d6

is not a valid power.

Ah, I understand. I think why people were confused was that you seemed to argue with Hyp, and then agree with him. This is a perfectly valid opinion to have, but it came across really confusing for some reason.

I do have to agree that that power is unlikely to ever exist. But it was created as an example, and to be as clear cut as possible, and I think it works in the context of the example.

 

[silentounce]

Effects either provide bonuses, penalties, impose a condition, create a conjuration or create a zone

Effects do lots more things than those. Read some of the fighter powers, or even Radiant Brilliance, the one I mentioned above. There is no set thing that effects are limited to in the rules.