Clueless DM

[Elf Witch]

I often read how players are driving the DM crazy by their behavior and the DMs come and wring their hands asking for advice on how to handle the problem player. Now granted I am sure that a lot of the times the player or players are at fault but after a conversation with a friend and DM last night I wonder if sometimes the DMs have not created the problems by their actions.

The DM in question was complaining about the lack of team work and the hostile behavior that some of the players are showing at the table. For example my roommate who plays in the game is often playing her cleric as very judgemental and critical of the other characters.

He wanted my advice on how to get her to chill. Well he seemed really shocked to find out that the reason she is acting this way is because of the fact that two of the players are hoarding magic items they find. Now since her character does not know it she cannot address it in character but the player sits at the table and hears and sees the players looting and hiding items while she is busy tending to wounds of the other players. And her anger at the situation is coming out in character.

He was like well I can't help that they are doing this. he seemed really surprised when I pointed out by letting them constanly find magic items that he knew they were not going to share was going to cause problems because their wealth is now much higher than the other players. He should have become proactive and talked to the players and suggest that they stop the hoarding or just stop putting so much magic in their hands.

As for lack of team effort well he has allowed lone wolf behavior and rewarded it, one of the players is going off on his own a lot and doing things wothout including the others now this DM does not like to railroad his players so he has gone along with it and though he has thrown somethings that should have really hurt the character or even killed it they have overcome it so to be fair the DM has given them XP and treasure for overcoming the obstucles so now this one player is two levels higher than everyone else and has more wealth than anyone else.

So now the rest of the players are trying lone wolf tactics to gain extra XP and goodies and the game bogs down with one player getting the spotlight while the rest twiddle their thumbs.

He can't see how he helped cause this situation.

When I pointed out to him he could have killed the character by throwing out an impossble encounter or he could have not given the amount of XP and treasure that he did he was like but that would not have been fair. Fair to who? The other players who had to sit there while they did the encounter he then told me no he got together with the one player on a different day and ran him through the encounter so the others would not be bored.

So not only did the guy get extra XP enough to level two levels higher plus a ton of gold he got to have a one on one session with the DM to boot. So I suggested he maybe give each player the same chance and he told me that it would be impossible to schedule and that it worked with the one player because they also socialize out of the game they have been friends for over 20 years.

So I pointed out that that just made it look like favortism and he just seemed totally clueless and kept protesting that he treats all the players the same and that he does not abuse his DM power and that he does not ever railroad.

He just does not seem to get it that in his quest for being fair and not ever railroading or what he thinks as taking away a player's freedom of choice that he is just making the problems in the game worse.

My final suggestion was that he take it all out of game amd talk to the players and let them talk and see if they can work out the issues.

So was I wrong in thinking that the DM did have a lot to do with this mess?

 

[Crothian]

So was I wrong in thinking that the DM did have a lot to do with this mess?

It seems like the players are the ones with the problems. He's just running the game he thinks people will enjoy and some of them are. But the players are not all on the same page and they need to talk it out. Talking to a group should not solely lie on the DM's shoulders, the cleric should be talking to the other players if she feels they are hoarding things.

 

[pogre]

So was I wrong in thinking that the DM did have a lot to do with this mess?

Nope. Sounds you are entirely reasonable from what you have written here.

 

[DM_Jeff]

I think you were right-on. It's a combination however, a DM feeding these habits can cause them to continue, but sometimes these situations happen on their own. When that happens the DM needs to subtly take control of the table, awarding magic items obviously meant for certain PCs who get left out, making sure lone wolf PCs need other members of the team with them to curb constant behavior, etc.

Without making an Iron Grip on the table, the DM needs to be in control and take the responsibility.

-DM Jeff

 

[werk]

Yeah, that's the DM's fault.

I don't know what the other players could do aside from leaving the campaign. It sound like the DM has it all rationalized in his head, so I wouldn't even try to change his line of thought. I would address the group, make them understand it is out of character and my own person feelings, and tell them my problem.

Basically, that game is rigged.

 

[Elf Witch]

It seems like the players are the ones with the problems. He's just running the game he thinks people will enjoy and some of them are. But the players are not all on the same page and they need to talk it out. Talking to a group should not solely lie on the DM's shoulders, the cleric should be talking to the other players if she feels they are hoarding things.

When she tried to talk to the other players they were like "how would your character know about this and why should it be a problem because it is what my character would do rogues steal it is why they have sleight of hand"

My answer would have been "well if my cleric finds out you are stealing from the party then she won't ever heal you again or if she does she will charge you for it"

Of course now you have party conflict going on and this DM really frowns on open party conflict it is one of his big no no rules.


I don't think it should all lie on the DM shoulders to encourage players talking out problems but I think a dM who rewards players even inadvertently for bad behaviors that contribute to the problems is also part of the problem.

 

[delericho]

Well he seemed really shocked to find out that the reason she is acting this way is because of the fact that two of the players are hoarding magic items they find. Now since her character does not know it she cannot address it in character but the player sits at the table and hears and sees the players looting and hiding items while she is busy tending to wounds of the other players.

I don't get involved in treasure distribution amongst the PCs either. That's something for them to deal with.

That said, just because the character doesn't know about it doesn't mean that the player can't take action. Quite simply, she should be pointing out that what they're doing is unacceptable and that she won't play with jerks. Any response that "that's what my character would do" should be met with "then you need a new character". You can't hide behind your character's personality as an excuse for bad behaviour, since you create that personality and are in total control of it.

As for lack of team effort well he has allowed lone wolf behavior and rewarded it...

he then told me no he got together with the one player on a different day and ran him through the encounter so the others would not be bored...

So not only did the guy get extra XP enough to level two levels higher plus a ton of gold he got to have a one on one session with the DM to boot. So I suggested he maybe give each player the same chance and he told me that it would be impossible to schedule and that it worked with the one player because they also socialize out of the game they have been friends for over 20 years.

So I pointed out that that just made it look like favortism

That, however, is a big DM mistake. Not only is he rewarding behaviour that he then complains about, but he's also showing favouritism to the one player over the others. One of these is a bad idea, the other is totally unacceptable.

So was I wrong in thinking that the DM did have a lot to do with this mess?

No. There are a lot of bad DMs out there. And a lot of people think that DMing is really easy, and something they could do in their sleep, when the reality is that it's only really easy to run a really bad game.

 

[werk]

When she tried to talk to the other players they were like "how would your character know about this and why should it be a problem because it is what my character would do rogues steal it is why they have sleight of hand"

My answer would have been "well if my cleric finds out you are stealing from the party then she won't ever heal you again or if she does she will charge you for it"

Of course now you have party conflict going on and this DM really frowns on open party conflict it is one of his big no no rules.

See, I would go the exact opposite route. This is a player/game issue, not a character issue. Character issues can be contested, player issues must be addressed.

 

[Elf Witch]

Yeah, that's the DM's fault.

I don't know what the other players could do aside from leaving the campaign. It sound like the DM has it all rationalized in his head, so I wouldn't even try to change his line of thought. I would address the group, make them understand it is out of character and my own person feelings, and tell them my problem.

Basically, that game is rigged.

I don't think the game is rigged. The DM told me that when he plans encounters he has a list of treasure a head of time and they only get it if they defeat the encounter and they have to roll searches to find the items.

Now who usually has the best search the rogue does. The player who plays the rogue writes notes to the DM to let him know that he is stealing the items. So the other players have no reason to ask for spot checks. I asked my roommate about it and she said that she tried asking for spot checks anytime she saw a note going to the DM and he got mad.

I can understand that but when I DM if I have a player pulling this kind of stuff I roll spot checks for the other players to see if they notice something going on. It evens the playing field.

I think that the game and some of the behavior has gotten away from this DM not that he is trying to favor certain players.

 

[Henry]

This DM hasn't made any mistake I didn't make when I was a younger and less experienced DM. I once had a player who had driven three hours to game, WAIT to be introduced, because his character concept was someone out of the home base region of the players, and because of the game speed that the players were doing (one or two players were involved in some high action sequences), his PC had to WAIT to be introduced. He drove three hours, and then waited four more, not gaming, and left a bit ticked off. It's something I very much regret years later, but I learned a lesson not to let other players monopolize the spotlight for too long, because it's a team game. We're all there to have a moment for our character to shine, and if others steal the spotlight, the DM is the last defense to make sure everyone gets some fun time in for their PC.

Fortunately, I learned an important lesson on the DM's role in a game session. Unfortunately, it was one of the last times I gamed with this friend, before he stopped driving up to see us. A DM needs to control the flow of a game (when it stops and starts, when things are too dull, when there needs to be an action break) as best he can; it's not ALL up to him, but he is the driving force.