Clueless DM

Ouch.

Seriously, Henry's advice you would be wisest to heed imo.

Roleplaying your character and new player enthusiasm aside, the kid needs to learn to share. The dm needs to get hands on, and the rest of the players need to speak up.

Basically there needs to be a group dialogue to nut out the table rules. Dither on this and you'll continue to get the 4 hour session with 20 minutes of fun. :(
 

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The fault definetly lies with both the DM and some Players. It may not even be intentional, but it's there.

Best thing is to talk to each of them, show them what they did wrong, how it defeats the purpose of the game, how this game is not about winning against the others, and how it upsets people. If the situation is not resolved, I think the only reasonable thing is to leave the group. Otherwise it's going to wind up the players done wrong, and suddenly, the game that was meant to relieve them of stress is creating more. Star Chef's recipe for disaster, that one!


The rogue has to learn that you don't steal from anyone - and again I point out that it's rogue, not thief! They don't have to be pick pockets - and that even thieves will come to appreciate some people. Unless, of course, theirs is an evil alignment and others are just tools for them.

But even then I'm always flat out against infighting in the party. Saw it a couple of times, always hated it.



About spotting the whole thing: First, as everyone said, spot and listen are reflexive. You shouldn't have to ask for rolls. If there's something to be seen, you're entitled to these rolls.

Also, even if noone notices in character, it's obvious out of character, and is bound to upset people. It makes it seems that one player plays to win. Cannot work, and will end in tears.


The spotlight hog must see that the others aren't extras. They spend their free time (which they probably don't have too much of) playing D&D, and they want to spend it actually playing. If they want to listen to a story played by others, they can go to the theater or watch TV. Chances are that the talent shown in those stories is a lot better than that your average roleplayer can come up with. If they just sit there, unable to do anything, they're bound to be upset. Another situation that cannot be good!



I had some similar situations, and heard of another instance that sounds a lot like this one (though even worse):

There was this all-evil game. The DM was a nice guy, but lacking in force of personality to keep his characters in check. This was shamelessly abused by one player (who was of the "I play to win" type in other games, too). He played a twinked out minotaur fighter (this was back in AD&D). Whenever there was treasure, he just took it, "justifying" it by "staying in character - my minotaur is greedy!". The problem was that no other player could stand up to that thing. They didn't seem to get anything together to gang up on him, and the DM wasn't in charge enough to put a stop on it. The result was that the campaign was dropped because it became unplayable.


Another player - not the most experienced - also had problems, or rather, was the problem: He couldn't keep in character and out of character separated, couldn't take jokes (which was at one point made worse by the fact that he played a comely female character in an evil group), and also had a bit of "play to win" syndrome.

There were several incidents:

Said anti-paladin (the hot chick) was, of course, target of several out of character jokes. It was a matter of course to make comments about female characters played by guys. Like "my char walks in the back and stares at her a.." and all the innuendo you can think of as a male in your prime around a gaming table with beer involved (i.e. a lot)

At one point, his character reacted to one of my (not my character's) comments and attacked him out of the blue. I survived, the DM let it slide (that DM was serious crap, though, so no surprise there). I left the campaign (due to the poor attendance record) before my character could exact his revenge.

The same guy, other DM, other game, other edition (not that the last part mattered). Played a sorcerer in a party that also had a wizard. So over the hill comes half a dozen draconians. The wizards chucks a fireball, the sorcerer tosses another right after, the draconians are toast. The DM tells them that they each get x amount XP, when I interject:

"Shouldn't the whole party get XP? Sure, we didn't get to act, but it's not as if we aren't there. We're still guarding those two, healing those two, and so on, and we would have participated had it been a harder battle. Otherwise I would have insisted on initiative (I would probably have won, I had +10 or something, it was a Ninja from Rokugan), and dropped at least one myself before they started to fire away."

The DM thought this was reasonable. The other players thought this was reasonable. The wizard's player thought this was reasonable.

The sorcerer's player threw a hissy fit. But it was already settled. Then, out of the clear blue sky, his character started to slander my character behind his back, like whispering to our cleric "that one's a coward, always sneaking around". When I told the DM that I rolled a (pretty high numger) on my listen check, the guy hissed: "You can't just roll dice, the DM has to say!" The DM relented (probably to keep the peace), but I swore to gut that one the first reason he gave me. I had my two old ninja-to covered in wyvern blood and his name on the blades. The guy left the group (just no longer showing up) before I could kill his character."

I also had him as a player when I ran CotSQ, and, having seen first hand how some people play all-evil, I told them clearly, in game and out of game, that they were to work together, or else.

Of course, the guy tried to keep some loot to himself. Of course, other players were entitled to spot checks, he was found out, and got the one and only warning - again, both in game and out of game.






Well, this has turned into a rant I see, so I'll stop here. I'll just repeat that this game is meant to play with each other, not against each other.
 

I hate playing in a game where a DM gives out different XP based on what you did in the game.

I think it leads to grandstanding, spot light hogging, lone wolf and bad feelings. If you want the players to act like a team don't but roadblocks in their way.

I had a DM do this if you didn't get a chance to go before the enemy was defeated or if you got knocked out no XP for tue encounter. :mad:

The only time I give out extra XP is for things like journals, finding a good picture, things like that and it is not a lot it is about 50 to 100. Its a little reward for the extra effort but not enough to penalize people who don't have the time or inclination to do extra.
 

Elf Witch said:
The player is basing his character on one from a book he has read he loves to read fantasy fiction and he has the making of a good role player he tries to stay in character and the character is a thief who has always had to steal to live.

He'll make a really good roleplayer when he realizes the difference between literature and gaming. And the DM needs to step up and explain that to him.
 

sniffles said:
I dislike letting a player conflict show up through character action. I think it's inappropriate for the cleric to do anything until the character is aware that there is something objectionable going on. The cleric's player shouldn't be asking for extra Spot rolls to catch the rogue looting, nor should the cleric's player threaten the rogue with any consequences unless the character has good in-game reasons to suspect the rogue of dubious behavior.

But when a rogue is pulling a fast one on the cleric, the cleric's player is the one to point that the cleric just might notice something. If the rogue is getting new magical items and a huge part of the gold, it's not like it would be all that hard to notice. And I see nothing wrong with reminding the player of the rogue that this might have quite disastrous results if this behavior is all discovered.

What does it really matter if your imaginary characters don't have equal amounts of imaginary loot?

If it's imaginary so it doesn't matter, why are we wasting our time on it? It's all about fun, and it's not that rare for people to stop having fun if they feel someone else is getting all the goodies.
 

Vocenoctum said:
Looks like the Cleric needs to think up an IC reason to cast Detect Magic. :)

IMO, it looks like the player of the Rogue thinks this is a video game.

As for Detect Magic, well golly, this problem was happening in my last game, but it was well-played by the person with the Beguiler. Still damned annoying though. Luckily, my Sorcerer used "Detect Magic" like radar, and would occasionally scan the Beguiler. The DM would pass me a note if my Sor saw anything unusual, I would address it, in character in the game.

It became on of my favorite parts of the campaign, getting to see the player of the Beguiler sweat and start to stutter.
 

Lanefan said:
Up until reading this I was thinking to myself "this sounds like my kind o' game; the PC's are gonna throw down on each other, gotta love it!", but when you say the DM has banned in-party conflict (dumb house rule, by the way) you've got a mess.


Lanefan
Yeah, most people play dungeons and dragons to bicker and fight amongst themselves. I'm sorry, if I want this I"ll have dinner with my family more often. The most important part about the game is the adventure. Petty squabbling hinders both finding the dungeons and the dragons.
 

Elf Witch said:
I should make it clear why roomie is getting really upset she is fourth level and does not have one magic item not one. And its is Eberron she also does not have the gold to really buy anything.

The rogue on the other hand who is third level because he died and the cleric borrowed money from her church to get him raised has golves of dex, amulet of health, boots of elvinkind, dozens of potions and several items he has not had identified he also has a lot of gold from selling the magic items he does not want.

The lone wolf has boots of elvenkind , gloves of dex, cloak of elvenkind, hewards handy haversack, item that allows speak with animal and a writ from the King of Breland for saving a relative on his lone wolf quest.
...
This is a big problem. The DM's not managing the game correctly. Dungeons and Dragons is a game of balance at its heart. WHen things become unbalanced, the games difficulty scales extremely in one or the other direction.

I'd serious have a talk with the DM about his management of the game, not just the players. Also, by him a book on DM'n. There are a few good ones out there that give really good advice, including the dmg2.
 

DonTadow said:
Yeah, most people play dungeons and dragons to bicker and fight amongst themselves. I'm sorry, if I want this I"ll have dinner with my family more often. The most important part about the game is the adventure. Petty squabbling hinders both finding the dungeons and the dragons.

For a lot of people, the most fun is the roleplaying. If all I wanted was the dungeons and the dragons, I've got board games to play. A certain amount of inter-party argument can be fun, and prohibiting the LG cleric and CN thief who's stealing from her from argument isn't realistic and just isn't fun to me.
 

DonTadow said:
Yeah, most people play dungeons and dragons to bicker and fight amongst themselves.

I don't know if this is necessarily the case. Without generalizing, I think some people just interact with others that way, adversarially. It's like some twisted form of competition...correcting every mistake, pointing out or mocking flaws, taking advantage in every way possible...largely to self-affirm and tell themselves that they are better than everyone else. I'm pretty sure that's not the case here.

There is also a line of thought that some people don't want to win, they want others to fail, and in doing so, they succeed. By pulling everyone else down, it makes it easier to rise.

Teamwork, unfortunately, doesn't come naturally to all people.
 

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