CN archetypes

[Drowbane]

Riddick, in Pitch Black and Chronicles of Riddick.

the Conan of Scifi

Damn!!!

Someone beat me to it... (just saw Chronicles 20minutes ago, no not for the first time )

I love the "Riddick on throne" scene. Is so Conan it hurts.

 

[Drowbane]

I've always felt a better word for the concept of a lawful alignment is an "orderly" alignment. It's not the outside influence of laws (and ignoring or not ignoring them) that makes the difference, but an internal way of thinking and approaching a problem. Calling it lawful just seems to attach a whole lot of extra meaning to the alignment that I'm not sure was meant to be there.

Movie gangsters for example are *quite* lawful (orderly) within their own codes and self imposed rules. They don't commit their crimes randomly or without a legitimate (if distinctly icky) reason. They don't go overboard in their actions if it's not called for.

Like how chaos==evil, I believe lawful==rule-abiding may not be the best way to look at things.

I agree completely.

The problem here is the mistaking "Lawful" for "lawful". That capital L makes a world of difference.

 

[Drowbane]

How about Mal himself? He's not very into helping people he doesn't care about, and shoots quite a few people without remorse.

I think he was mentioned as CN with good tendencies in a thread awhile back.

I'd peg Mal as TN with Lawful, Chaotic, and Good tendencies. (Hmm, in retrospec... that smacks of a C/N PC)

 

[Clueless]

Hm. Mal's pretty dynamic throughout the series, he's hard to pin down. After finding out abut the Pax I'd put him firmly on CG - he improvises too much to be said to be going about his new war in an orderly fashion.

Previous to the Battle of Serenity I'd say CG, as an idealist. I'd honestly say most of the series he floated between CN and CG, since he seemed to feel guilty too much about not helping people if he could to be really N about it. At the beginning of the movie, he was really slipping towards CN (he was getting tired of fighting with no gains made). And I think that transition from too tired to care CN to stubborn rebel CG again, was one of the high points of the film really. That story of regaining your idealism and your strength to fight back.

 

[ruleslawyer]

I'd say Mal is pretty consistently CG, actually. One of the stronger points of Firefly/Serenity is that being in agony over your principles (or your emotions) doesn't mean you don't have them. He's pretty strongly in a line of heroes (in the western/space opera/noir genres) who may talk a good game about not caring, but in their heart of hearts simply can't stop themselves from caring.

 

[delericho]

I'd say Mal is pretty consistently CG, actually. One of the stronger points of Firefly/Serenity is that being in agony over your principles (or your emotions) doesn't mean you don't have them. He's pretty strongly in a line of heroes (in the western/space opera/noir genres) who may talk a good game about not caring, but in their heart of hearts simply can't stop themselves from caring.

Exactly my take on the character.

I also agree (mostly) with the comments about him drifting towards CN at the start of the film, although I think that was more out of desperation - in order to keep flying they had to have money, so he had to kill that villager, a fact that burns him to no end.

How about Saywer from Lost? Or is he another one who's general selfishness (and, in particular, con-artist past) is sufficient as to make him a 'small' Evil?

 

[delericho]

Whats with all these evil characters getting called chaotic?

I think people are uncomfortable with labelling a character they like as Evil, because that then raises the question of why they find the character so appealing, which is in turn quite uncomfortable.

So we use Chaotic as a friendly face for Evil, whether it applies or not.

I agree that Riddick starts Pitch Black as Evil, and perhaps drifts towards Neutral as the films progress. However, he does seem to have real problems with any and all authority, which would seem to mark him as Chaotic.

 

[Clueless]

Sawyer? Nuetral. Probably TN even. As covered before, breaking the law doesn't make you chaotic - you can still be a fairly orderly personality and be a criminal. He hates himself for being so good at the con, and even has cons he just *won't* do, so evil doesn't seem to apply entirely either. He's selfish yes, but at the same time if someone's life were on the line I think (like Mal) he'd do the right thing. So not bad enough to be E, not guilty about it enough to be G, not chaotic in his planning enough to be C, not orderly enough in anything else but running the con be L... so... TN it is. He's goal orriented, and above all else, he's practical.

I think he may have the best feel for what the survivors are likely to do in the future and the longest 'what will keep us alive' view of anyone on the island. He's *right* about the leadership on the island just sort of taking over without any debate from anyone else on the subject and he was *very* right about taking away the guns before said leadership started something stupid. Wierdly enough, I really like Sawyer.

 

[Klaus]

Exactly my take on the character.

I also agree (mostly) with the comments about him drifting towards CN at the start of the film, although I think that was more out of desperation - in order to keep flying they had to have money, so he had to kill that villager, a fact that burns him to no end.

How about Saywer from Lost? Or is he another one who's general selfishness (and, in particular, con-artist past) is sufficient as to make him a 'small' Evil?

I'd peg Sawyer as NE initially, being ultimately all about himself. He is willing to deprive people of their hard-earned economies, and ammasses a "private stash" of stuff amid a plane crash. By the time he gets on the raft, his alignment has shifted to N.

 

[Clueless]

Ok, granted - I'll agree with starting at NE and shifting to TN as he matures.