Combat Expertise and Spellcasting

[Drommon]

Can I use the combat expertise feat while casting a spell?

Thanks,

Drommon

 

[Otterscrubber]

Without having my books handy I would have to say that you could only do this if making a melee touch attack with a touch spell. I dont recall if you had to use a melee weapon, but even if you do you are usually considered armed if you are using a touch attack spell so I dont see why not. But you should not be able to do this if casting other types of spells that do not involve a melee attack roll.

 

[ThirdWizard]

I don't think you can, because you arn't using the Attack Action, you're using the Cast a Spell Action. I *think* a touch attack isn't an Attack Action, just in case you hold the charge to future rounds, but I'm not sure about that, can't remember exactly.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I *think* a touch attack isn't an Attack Action, just in case you hold the charge to future rounds, but I'm not sure about that, can't remember exactly.

If you touch in the same round you cast the spell, you're not using the Attack Action.

If you hold the charge and attack in the next round, there are a few ways you can do it.

1. As an AoO. Not the Attack Action or the Full Attack Action - no Expertise.
2. As part of a Charge Action. No Expertise.
3. As the melee attack from the Attack Action. Expertise allowed.
4. As one melee attack in the Full Attack Action. Expertise allowed.

-Hyp.

 

[Drommon]

If you touch in the same round you cast the spell, you're not using the Attack Action.

If you hold the charge and attack in the next round, there are a few ways you can do it.

1. As an AoO. Not the Attack Action or the Full Attack Action - no Expertise.
2. As part of a Charge Action. No Expertise.
3. As the melee attack from the Attack Action. Expertise allowed.
4. As one melee attack in the Full Attack Action. Expertise allowed.

-Hyp.

Hyp -

Can you explain number 2? I know charge allows a melee attack. Are you saying that it is not an attack action?

Thanks!

Drommon

 

[AuraSeer]

Can you explain number 2? I know charge allows a melee attack. Are you saying that it is not an attack action?

That's right. When you charge you are taking the Charge action, not the Attack action.

 

[Drommon]

That's right. When you charge you are taking the Charge action, not the Attack action.

OK. Since charge is a charge action then you cannot use combat expertise while charging at all.

Drommon

 

[Hypersmurf]

OK. Since charge is a charge action then you cannot use combat expertise while charging at all.

Bingo. Or Fighting Defensively. You can, however, use Power Attack.

-Hyp.

 

[Otterscrubber]

That's right. When you charge you are taking the Charge action, not the Attack action.

According to the SRD this not correct. There is no such thing as a "Charge Action" or an "Attack Action". The only "Actions" that take place in a round are Standard, Move, Full-Round and Free Actions. Anything like an Attack or Charge falls into one of these categories.

One can argue this makes the wording of the Combat Expertise feat somewhat poor, but I would interpret the feats "Attack Action" language to mean that you are making an attack roll to hit a target, based on the SRD info. True you are casting a spell as your standard action, but if the spell requires or allows you to make a melee touch attack in the same round you are still making an "Attack" and I would allow Combat Expertise to be used in that case.

 

[Drommon]

Bingo. Or Fighting Defensively. You can, however, use Power Attack.

-Hyp.

It is very clear that you can power attack during charge and that you cannot use fighting defensively during a charge.

What isn't clear to me is how attack action is defined. It says under standard actions that there are three attack actions, namely, melee, ranged, and unarmed. Also, Charge is a Special Attack that allows a melee attack which is an attack action... right? or am I confused. Please clarify.

Thanks!

Drommon