Combat Vigor: loophole?

[Wilphe]

Dude, how is punching a puppy *not* Evil? Even if you don't try to kill it, you're *punching a puppy*.

Great

There are plenty of threads about cheese
&
There are plenty of threads about alignment

Now we have a cheesy tactic that's also spawned an alignment discussion

 

[irdeggman]

I do not agree. Rounds do not end when combat ends. Rounds is just an organizational tool that can be used any time, in or out of combat.

By your logic, spells which last X/rds could never be cast out of combat, which of course is not the case.

PHB pg 312

round: A 6-second unit of game time used to manage combat. Every combatant may make at least one action every round.

Give me some examples of spells that weren't modified to change their duration to minutes (or hours) that meet your criteria.

All of the buff spells have been changed to use increments of time rather than rounds now (i.e., in 3.5).

 

[Kevman]

Mistwell is right!

How about Vigor, Lesser? Or any of the Vigor spells? If you cast one in combat, does the fast healing stop when combat ends? Or does it stop when the spell duration expires? Are you unable to cast these spells out of combat since you are not currently tracking time in rounds? Obviously not. Though casting a Vigor spell would cause you to _start_ tracking time in rounds again until the spell ends.

 

[irdeggman]

Do you have an initiative order outside of combat?

Rounds are measured in terms of initiative order. That is start and and end of round is based on when your last action occured (i.e., your initiative order).

IMO the vigor spells are either poorly worded and should be minutes instead of rounds or they are designed to only work in combat itself. Either explanation works.

Something else to think about is the original question - once the combat is over so is the encounter.

 

[Henry]

IMO the vigor spells are either poorly worded and should be minutes instead of rounds or they are designed to only work in combat itself. Either explanation works.

In that case, over half of the spells in the PHB are going to have to be reworded, then -- Blink, Greater Invisibility, Divine Power, Ethereal Jaunt, you name it.

I still need to get hold of a DM and look up their specifics of "an encounter." While this (and a lot of other cheap tactics such as the old "whirlwind attack-bucket of snails" ) is legal by the rules, it's not one that I think very many DM's would allow to be abused.

 

[Sejs]

Give me some examples of spells that weren't modified to change their duration to minutes (or hours) that meet your criteria.

All of the buff spells have been changed to use increments of time rather than rounds now (i.e., in 3.5).

I'm going to have to ask you to back that one up, Ird. There are plenty of spells that have a duration in rounds/level. The Summon Monster spells, Displacement, Haste, Blink, and Fire Shield are all in rounds. Not to mention any number of spells from the Spell Compendium; Angelskin, Foundation of Stone, etc. Heck, the Swift spells have a duration of only 1 round - is it impossible to cast Swift Fly outside of combat?

 

[Sejs]

The feat sound a little sadistic. You feel better when inflicting pain on others.

Nah, it's not necessarily like that. You can get just as focused defending the princess from the evil cultists as you can kicking puppies.

Think of it more along the lines of Jesse Ventura's nugget of wisdom from the first Predator movie:

You ain't got time to bleed.

 

[dhaga]

The Vigor effects can still be measured in rounds whether they are cast in or outside of combat. I do not think a rewording is necessary. A round is 6 seconds (as noted above). The duration is the same in or out of combat; it just seems longer when you are in combat, as you count through the initiatives. In "real time" (game time), it's still 6 seconds (per round).