Combat with a Choker

[Olaf the Stout]

Almost!

Improved Grab:

If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature’s descriptive text).​

So, you correctly judged that a choker that hits deals 1d3+3 damage, and if gains a hold, it deals 1d3+3 damage as well for a total of 2d3+6. But, on each successful grapple check thereafter, the choker deals damage per the weapon used with improved grab (1d3+3), and/i] constrict: another 1d3+3! So, each successful grapple check deals 2d3+6 damage.

So in a suprise round a Choker could deal 4d3+12 points of damage if it succeeded on all of its rolls.

So close!

Thanks for the pick-up eamon. You are correct. I missed the second lot of constriction damage.

It is interesting to note then that, as Hypersmurf stated earlier, if a Choker hits and successfully grapples on its first attack, a standard attack will then do as much damage as a full attack could since it can't get its second tentacle attack in (without taking a -20 on grapple checks).

This thread has really helped me to better understand how monsters with Improved Grab work. Thanks guys!

Olaf the Stout

 

[moritheil]

In a 20th level campaign we ran up against a CR 18 paragon gravetouched ghoul choker that nearly killed the main tank - and he could stand up against most dragons in melee.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

Creatures set up for grappling tend to totally own medium sized humanoids in my experience. If the difference between the 2 grapple modifiers is too big it is basically game over for the combatant with the lower modifier. Sometimes it's good to knock players egos down a notch though!

Olaf the Stout

 

[Bumamgar]

Maybe I'm just playing it wrong, but in my experience, grappling never works in a monsters favor. Of course, this could be because there's always a rogue in the party...

But seriously, why would anything willingly put itself in a position where it is denied it's dexterity bonus to AC and thereby easier to hit and vulnerable to sneak attacks? Yeah, the monster can chomp/constrict/whatever a single party member, but while it's doing that, the rest of the party is going to town on a now much easier to hit and damage enemy...

 

[moritheil]

Maybe I'm just playing it wrong, but in my experience, grappling never works in a monsters favor. Of course, this could be because there's always a rogue in the party...

But seriously, why would anything willingly put itself in a position where it is denied it's dexterity bonus to AC and thereby easier to hit and vulnerable to sneak attacks? Yeah, the monster can chomp/constrict/whatever a single party member, but while it's doing that, the rest of the party is going to town on a now much easier to hit and damage enemy...

1. Improved grab
2. Risk of sneak attacking your own ally (this is debated)

 

[Bumamgar]

Improved Grab just means the creature can start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. Sure, the creature can take -20 on it's grapple check to keep it's dex bonus to AC and continue to threaten and attack others, but generally a -20 means the creature isn't going to have much of a chance of actually succeeding in it's grapple attempt.

I guess certain optimized monsters have such high grapple checks that they can absorb a -20 penalty and still have a reasonable chance of succeeding on grapple checks. Especially if they are going after a non-melee class who's going to have a poor grapple to begin with.

Guess maybe I just need to play these monsters a bit smarter

I definitely didn't find anything about there being a risk of hitting your ally if you are attacking an opponent who is grappling.

 

[darthkilmor]

I definitely didn't find anything about there being a risk of hitting your ally if you are attacking an opponent who is grappling.

Footnote 3 on the Defender Is... table.

 

[Bumamgar]

Ah, for ranged attacks only. That makes sense I guess, although seems quite out of place in a game where ranged attacks into melee simply incur a -4 penalty and have no chance of hitting an ally.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Of course, this could be because there's always a rogue in the party...

That's why you ensure the one you grapple first is the Rogue...

-Hyp.