Come again - you can't shoot bows in melee while in melee?

[Hypersmurf]

If any of that is incorrect, please let me know why.

"Therefore the further (higher) it is fired, the more momentum will be behind it when it hits."

That's not the case.

Whatever momentum you impart to it at the instant it leaves the bow (assuming no air resistance effects) is the momentum it will have on impact.

Let's say I fire it essentially straight. It leaves the bow travelling at (say) 100mph. It hits the target travelling at 100mph.

Now let's say I shoot it in a shallow arc. As it travels upward, it slows down due to gravity. At the peak of its arc, gravity has slowed it by 30mph. It's travelling only 70mph. Then it continues on the downward half of the arc, and it accelerates as it travels downward. By the time it reaches the target, it's travelling at 100mph again.

Now let's say I shoot it in a high arc. As it travels upward, it slows down due to gravity. At the peak of its arc, gravity has slowed it by 60mph. It's travelling only 40mph. Then it continues on the downward half of the arc, and it accelerates as it travels downward. By the time it reaches the target, it's travelling at 100mph again.

Now let's say I shoot it straight up. As it travels upward, it slows down due to gravity. At the peak of its arc, it stops entirely; gravity has slowed it by 100mph. Then it starts to fall, and it accelerates as it travels downward. By the time it reaches me, it's travelling at 100mph again.

It doesn't matter how high I shoot the arrow; by the time it reaches the target, its speed (and therefore its momentum) are identical. The height of the arc will influence my maximum range, but not the momentum at the target.

Of course, if the arrows were being fired from the top of a cliff...let's not go there...

No, let's. The arrow will be travelling faster when it reaches the target at the bottom of a cliff than if it reaches a target at the same level as the top of the cliff. But again, how high I arc it makes no difference. If I shoot straight down, straight out, slightly up, or a long way up... by the time the arrow gets to the bottom of the cliff in all four cases, it will be travelling at the same speed.

-Hyp.

 

[Thurbane]

I'll forego the technical points of the argument for now. I'm not convinced you are 100% correct in your physics, but I need to find some sources that I don't have access to at the moment.

The cliff comment was meant as a joke, basically, but technically in that particular case an arrow does have more momentum at the end of it's flight than the beginning. You brought arcs into it, not me.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'll forego the technical points of the argument for now. I'm not convinced you are 100% correct in your physics, but I need to find some sources that I don't have access to at the moment.

Okay

-Hyp.

 

[Jdvn1]

I told him today that EN World calls it foul, but he seems resistant to accept that, even though he asked me to ask.

We're more than happy to listen to any rules citations he can provide.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

as much as i want arrows to go faster the higher you shoot them (cuz of the cool factor) ex vhd:bloodlust, hyp is right on the matter. I BLAME YOU MOVIES... yeah you know the ones im talking about.

http://library.thinkquest.org/27344/archphy.htm


omg Jdvn1, if he comes on the board.... hold me back man... NO man, hold me back... i might unsheath my dm smackdown stick that dispells bad house rules that were picked up from other bad dms.... grrrr ahhhhhhhhh let me at him joke joke

 

[Nyaricus]

Thanks for everyone's input; I'll inform him that one, per RAW, get a -4 to hit, and draws an AoO if you are being threatened in melee, are shooting into melee, and don't have Precise Shot.

With Precise Shot, the -4 to hit is negated.

The AoO is negated if you can take a 5-ft step and/or a movement action to get out of their threatened squares.

Thanks again

 

[nittanytbone]

I am planning to; he told me point black to ask you guys if (t)his ruling was true or not.

nittanytbone, why do those allow you to threaten? Thanks.

Here's some quotes from the SRD:

Threatened Squares

You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your action. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you’re unarmed, you don’t normally threaten any squares and thus can’t make attacks of opportunity.

Gauntlet, Spiked
Your opponent cannot use a disarm action to disarm you of spiked gauntlets. The cost and weight given are for a single gauntlet. An attack with a spiked gauntlet is considered an armed attack.

Spiked Armor
You can outfit your armor with spikes, which can deal damage in a grapple or as a separate attack. See Armor for details.

Improved Unarmed Strike
You are considered to be armed even when unarmed, that is, you do not provoke attacks or opportunity from armed opponents when you attack them while unarmed. However, you still get an attack of opportunity against any opponent who makes an unarmed attack on you.

Any of those options lets you threaten and thus make attacks of opportunity. With the spiked gauntlet, you may technically need to take one hand off of your bow at the end of your turn (free action) and put it back on at the start of your next turn (also a free action).

 

[mikebr99]

Thanks for everyone's input; I'll inform him that one, per RAW, get a -4 to hit, and draws an AoO if you are being threatened in melee, are shooting into melee, and don't have Precise Shot.

With Precise Shot, the -4 to hit is negated.

The AoO is negated if you can take a 5-ft step and/or a movement action to get out of their threatened squares.

Thanks again

The Arrow Mind spell also negates the AoOs, and you threaten!...

Mike

 

[Klaus]

If you're shooting into a melee:
- You suffer a -4 penalty to your attack roll if there are allies adjacent to the target.
- Your target may benefit from a +4 cover bonus to AC if there are creatures between him and you.

If you're using a ranged weapon while in a threatened area:
- Each foe that threatens you may make an Attack of Opportunity against you.

If both conditions apply, you suffer all those effects:
- -4 to hit if there are allies near the target;
- Target may benefit from cover (+4 bonus to AC)
- You provoke Attacks of Opportunity from all foes thatthreaten you.

Anything other than that is a House Rule.

 

[irdeggman]

If you're shooting into a melee:
- You suffer a -4 penalty to your attack roll if there are allies adjacent to the target.

This also applies if you are in the threatened square and shooting at the foe that threatens you - since you are now shooting into melee.