D&D (2024) Command is the Perfect Encapsulation of Everything I Don't Like About 5.5e

[TiQuinn]

I’m not sure what RPG horror stories some folks have in their closets but:

1) Command is not the root of all evil when it comes to potty humor in D&D.

2) It is completely possible and normal for people to approach serious games seriously and lighthearted games lightheartedly and be respectful of when is the right time to do so.

3) The open-endedness of certain spells is the feature of TTRPGs that separates it from video games and makes it absolutely unique. Codifying the rules to eliminate open-endedness in the pursuit of policing players is throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and ultimately not even a solution for the latter. You’re not going to fix players who aren’t right for your table by locking down rules.

 

[ECMO3]

Suggestion got weirdly buffed in that it no longer has to be a "reasonable" suggestion. I also like the restriction of Command since you only get a single word you have to be creative. If you can just tell them to do anything they want then there's little thought involved.

This did cause some delay/confusion in play.

As a DM I can't count how many times I got something like - I cast command and command them to raise the gate

One word requires creativity, it also casues delay at the table, but it is worth it IMO.

 

[TiQuinn]

So we should teach kids it's ok to try to force your way to displeasure of others?

Why do you assume this is displeasure for others?

 

[Alzrius]

Yeah, 3.5e was filled with all kinds of rules oddities that are forgotten now. For example did you know that there is a rule that distinguishes between the difficulty of tumbling across even vs. uneven cobblestones?

Just out of curiosity, where was that rule? Because it doesn't seem to be in the basic listing for the Tumble skill (at least when I did a ctrl+f for "cobblestones")?

 

[Not a Decepticon]

It's a game. People do it for fun. If every player including the DM is on that level, and they're all having a good time, they're playing the game correctly.

Why do you assume every player is on that level, especially when I have been talking about how this spell enables people to try to force games NOT on this level into going down to it?

Why do you assume this is displeasure for others?

I can speak from my experience, if someone did thing like that on my table as a player I would probably have to leave the room, maybe vomit, because this is bloody disgusting. I think it owuld ruin the game night for me, I do not come to RPGs to be grossed out and be told I'm stupid for being invested into a collaborative story we're together creating.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Why do you assume every player is on that level, especially when I have been talking about how this spell enables people to try to force games NOT on this level into going down to it?

I can speak from my experience, if someone did thing like that on my table as a player I would probably have to leave the room, maybe vomit, because this is bloody disgusting. I think it owuld ruin the game night for me, I do not come to RPGs to be grossed out and be told I'm stupid for being invested into a collaborative story we're together creating.

Mate, get a grip. The issue is not with the spell, it is with the people. If people are inclined to insert poop humour, they will; there are endless opportunities with or without this one spell. Don't play with people who have tastes incompatible with yours. This is not something the rules can mandate.

 

[Micah Sweet]

And that brouhaha was always stupid. The DMs job there was to mesh the narrative to the mechanical, if it matters to the group, and its so straightforward to do that: "your attack (effect whatever) creates a resonance wave in the jelly, causing it to wobble, destablising it." Same mechanical effect as prone. Everybodies happy.

This is a "Your Mileage May Vary" situation. Not everyone sees their job as a DM is to make up meaningless flavor for the players to explain the set-in-stone mechanics.

 

[TiQuinn]

I can speak from my experience, if someone did thing like that on my table as a player I would probably have to leave the room, maybe vomit, because this is bloody disgusting. I think it owuld ruin the game night for me, I do not come to RPGs to be grossed out and be told I'm stupid for being invested into a collaborative story we're together creating.

Okay so it sounds like you’re advocating for a Session Zero where people discuss rationally like adults whether potty humor is allowed.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I agree, the insistence on allowing players to do stuff like that kinda reeks of the bathos and irony-poisoning that is plaguing mainstream media, where you cannot even try to do a serious scene without someone laughing at you for taking it seriously. Not everyone wants to turn every campaign into MCU, trying to do so like that sends clear message there is tonal dissonance between player and the GM and the thing I would probably do is either shut such gross behavior down, point to our lines and veils or pause the game entierly to talk with the player.


The thing is, the Black Company has a consistent tone, even its actually humorous moments, like that time Croaker included One-Eyes horribly written report in the annals. The scene with the ballista is played for drama and it outright increases the dramatic tension, once this fails to kill the bad guy and they have to then jump him, knockin him down (and he doesn't go without a fight), crucify him and feed him something that will burst form his chest like a Xenomorph later.

There is a difference between creativity and players trying to turn the game into a joke by force. There's usually plenty of laughs to go around, but we like to take the adventure somewhat seriously. The "I make villain poop his pants" isn't creative or fun, it's juvenile and effectively laughs at everyone at the table for trying to take the collaborative story we're telling seriously. Not everything needs to have a "Hulk vs Loki" scene and at this point people are fed up seeing it everywhere anyway.,

I see your point, but I don't think the answer is to make it mechanically impossible. As you say, perhaps the people at the table should simply talk about these issues and come to a consensus.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

Okay so it sounds like you’re advocating for a Session Zero where people discuss rationally like adults whether potty humor is allowed.

And I have said multiple times I feel Command was quietly enabling problem players to ignore what was established in session zero to do this stuff anyway, in the name of "being creative".

Mate, get a grip. The issue is not with the spell, it is with the people. If people are inclined to insert poop humour, they will; there are endless opportunities with or without this one spell. Don't play with people who have tastes incompatible with yours. This is not something the rules can mandate.

Again, why are we proving tools to enable that kind of players?