D&D 5E Common rules mistakes

[Dausuul]

Likewise if you ready an action to attack, and you have multiple attacks, you're readied action on triggers one attack.

This confused me at first, so to expand a bit for anyone else who didn't remember seeing this restriction in the Ready action: It's the Extra Attack rules that are imposing the limitation, not the Ready rules. Extra Attack specifies that when you take the Attack action on your turn, you get an extra attack (or two, or three). If you ready and then act out of turn, it's not your turn and Extra Attack doesn't apply.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I think we're going to try Initiative-less combat next session. I talked to one player about it, and as long as he still gets to use his Alertness feat he's fine with trying. If we don't like we'll just go back to how we've always done it. Which, frankly, I'm rather bored of.

In the waning days of 4e, I was using a "reactive" initiative system where, after a PC's turn, an enemy got a turn (in descending order of their initiative). It kind of worked like Legendary Actions work in 5e, but for every enemy action in every fight.

It is pretty good. I'm not running a 5e game yet, but if I do...

(anyway, back to your regularly scheduled thread...)

 

[Nebulous]

In this situation Elgweth must have had a turn in the previous round in order to ready an action. You are correct that there is no change to initiative order.

Round 1: Orcs run towards door, but do not get to it. Elgweth uses action to ready an attack.

Round 2: Orcs open door, Elgweth uses reaction to attack, orcs finish their turns. Elgweth acts as normal. Additionally, he may now use a reaction again because he has started his turn*.

*Reactions reset when you start a turn, not at the start of a round. "When you take a reaction, you can't take another one until the start of your next turn." -- PHB 190

Ok, ok, got it. I think. See my players have been pushing Ready an Action just like we always have and I hadn't questioned it until now because it works, but it's not RAW.

 

[Pvt. Winslow]

So with the examples of Readying an action, and now knowing that the Readied action occurs after the triggering action, I wonder if this means Readying an action based on movement is a bad idea? If the Ready action occurs after the trigger, doesn't that mean you don't get to say - shoot an arrow at the orc - until after it completely finishes its move? You don't interrupt their movement, as per the wording of Reactions in the DMG, so if the Orc is 30ft from you and moves towards you, your arrow wouldn't fly until he was right up in your face, which would give you Disadvantage on your attack roll.

I'm guessing a lot of DM's will still allow the character to shoot before the Orc finishes moving, but does that now constitute a house rule from RAW? If so, it changes a few dynamics. Now, Readying an action needs more specific Triggers, like "If that door opens and there's an Orc there, I shoot," or "If the Orc unsheathes his axe, I shoot him,".

 

[ad_hoc]

So with the examples of Readying an action, and now knowing that the Readied action occurs after the triggering action, I wonder if this means Readying an action based on movement is a bad idea? If the Ready action occurs after the trigger, doesn't that mean you don't get to say - shoot an arrow at the orc - until after it completely finishes its move? You don't interrupt their movement, as per the wording of Reactions in the DMG, so if the Orc is 30ft from you and moves towards you, your arrow wouldn't fly until he was right up in your face, which would give you Disadvantage on your attack roll.

I'm guessing a lot of DM's will still allow the character to shoot before the Orc finishes moving, but does that now constitute a house rule from RAW? If so, it changes a few dynamics. Now, Readying an action needs more specific Triggers, like "If that door opens and there's an Orc there, I shoot," or "If the Orc unsheathes his axe, I shoot him,".

Movement isn't an action though.

What you are really doing is making a series of 5' moves. You move 5'. Then move 5' more. Then 5' more. Etc. At any point you can perform an action, bonus action, item interaction, etc. and then continue moving.

You can't trigger on movement and act before the opponent has moved out of their space. They finish the move out of the space then your action triggers.

 

[Dausuul]

The way it works is that your place in the initiative order is fixed, and everything resets when your initiative count comes up. If you use your action to Ready, then you have a triggered reaction that you can use later in the round.

As soon as your initiative comes around again, your status resets. Whatever you did last round is forgotten. If you were still holding a triggered reaction, it's lost*. You can then act normally.

[SIZE=-2]*Though it's not entirely clear how this works with spells. I'd be inclined to say you can keep the spell hanging fire as long as you immediately re-ready on your turn.[/SIZE]

I'm guessing a lot of DM's will still allow the character to shoot before the Orc finishes moving, but does that now constitute a house rule from RAW?

I would say not, because there is no such thing as a "move action" in 5E. 3E and 4E required you to take your movement in a single indivisible chunk. 5E is a lot more flexible--you can move at any time on your turn, before your action, after your action, both before and after your action, in some cases even during your action.

So, when the orc begins to move, that is not a "use it or lose it" moment. The orc's movement is continuously triggering your reaction throughout. You can shoot after the first step, or you can hold the shot till the orc is right in your face.

​What you are really doing is making a series of 5' moves. You move 5'. Then move 5' more. Then 5' more. Etc. ... You can't trigger on movement and act before the opponent has moved out of their space. They finish the move out of the space then your action triggers.

I'm pretty sure that's another example of being tripped up by rules from previous editions. 5E is not grid-based by default. There is no basis for breaking movement into 5-foot steps. It's just movement. Five feet, five inches, doesn't matter. If it's enough movement for your PC to perceive, you can use it as a trigger.

 

[BoldItalic]

So with the examples of Readying an action, and now knowing that the Readied action occurs after the triggering action, I wonder if this means Readying an action based on movement is a bad idea? If the Ready action occurs after the trigger, doesn't that mean you don't get to say - shoot an arrow at the orc - until after it completely finishes its move? You don't interrupt their movement, as per the wording of Reactions in the DMG, so if the Orc is 30ft from you and moves towards you, your arrow wouldn't fly until he was right up in your face, which would give you Disadvantage on your attack roll.

I'm guessing a lot of DM's will still allow the character to shoot before the Orc finishes moving, but does that now constitute a house rule from RAW? If so, it changes a few dynamics. Now, Readying an action needs more specific Triggers, like "If that door opens and there's an Orc there, I shoot," or "If the Orc unsheathes his axe, I shoot him,".

The wording of the trigger condition is important. If you want to shoot the orc before it reaches you, say something like: "If an orc moves towards me, I'll shoot an arrow at it when it comes within 15 feet of me."
Movement is not an Action, as such, it's just movement, so the principle of "your reaction occurs after the triggering action" doesn't apply. The trigger is not an "Action".

 

[ad_hoc]

I'm pretty sure that's another example of being tripped up by rules from previous editions. 5E is not grid-based by default. There is no basis for breaking movement into 5-foot steps. It's just movement. Five feet, five inches, doesn't matter. If it's enough movement for your PC to perceive, you can use it as a trigger.

Yes, you're right. This is only when using the optional grid based rules which are not the default in 5e.

If I were playing in a non-grid based game I would probably rule 1' as the minimum.

The main thing is that you are not reacting before the movement. Some movement happens, then you react to it.

 

[Pvt. Winslow]

The wording of the trigger condition is important. If you want to shoot the orc before it reaches you, say something like: "If an orc moves towards me, I'll shoot an arrow at it when it comes within 15 feet of me."
Movement is not an Action, as such, it's just movement, so the principle of "your reaction occurs after the triggering action" doesn't apply. The trigger is not an "Action".

This makes a lot of sense to me. I suppose it's all in the wording. Even IF movement was an action (which the above posters have convinced me it is not, thank you for the explanations,) just stating "I'll shoot as soon as he moves 5ft closer to me" would be enough to shoot before he reaches you, as your Ready action would go off after he moves that 5ft. So this is all good to know.

I wonder if the biggest reason behind the wording in the DMG is to give a bit of a boon to spellcasters when they cast a spell? By making your Readied action occur after the triggering Action, you can no longer shoot a caster as he casts a spell, potentially ruining it. This is important to know, as there could be times a DM (one playing particularly savvy foes), might have five archers Ready actions to shoot the spellcaster if he casts a spell, which would force five separate Concentration checks. Now, the caster would complete the spell, then five arrows would come his way. Equally scary, but perhaps less frustrating?

 

[miniaturehoarder]

So does this sound accurate to tell my players to clarify the issue with all of us?


So, for example, orcs are charging through a door. The orcs have Initiative. Players go next. Elgweth's trigger is: "When an orc comes through the door, I fire an arrow." It is an action to Ready, and it triggers your "reaction", which you only get one per round (usually)

So the orc enters, and Elgweth fires after the trigger, then the orc finishes its move if still alive. Player's turn: well, Elgweth has already used his action and reaction for that round, but he has a move left if he wants to relocate.

Readying an Action in 5th edition does not change your Initiative order.

Uhm, sounds like you are using a Everyone Declares, then Everyone Acts system, which is pretty far rules wise from 5E's default of each character takes a separate and distinct turn.