Commoners as Adventurers: Possible?

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

Thanks for being more specific about your personal experience with this type of game. I have no White Wolf/Storyteller System experience, so I can't speak for the merits or flaws of its mechanics, though I personally tend to dislike "dice pool" (bucket of d6) systems in general.

Are you sure that your experience wasn't caused by bad RPers?

The "pre-adventure" adventures I've played in were great, full of fun, and we never, ever charged the ogre with our daggers. Subtlety and deception were the order of the day, because we knew we were horribly outmatched and would get creamed if the ogre got its dirty paws on us. Running away and getting help (warning the village), sneaking around the ogre, setting traps, or outwitting the ogre were how to best deal with it. Outright challenging it mano y mano was a last resort every time.

It was fun to be terrified.

It was fun to run around screaming "The ogres are coming! The ogres are coming!"

It was fun to be forced to deal with challenges with our wits and not our swords.

YMMV, but I don't think we are "deluded" in thinking this sort of fun makes for more interesting RPing experiences and richer character development.

 

[mmadsen]

...with a rule that says 1st-level commoners can convert their level of commoner to a level in any other class if they do so before achieving 2nd level and are below the maximum possible randomly determined starting age of a character of their race and new class (so a human could trade her commoner level for wizard before 27, but would have to be under 19 to become a Sorcerer without keeping a level of commoner). Joe-average peasant is a 2nd or 3rd level commoner.

Since first-level characters get four levels worth of skill points, and since most classes are intentionally front-loaded to represent a youth full of training, I think the game system should just get past the whole notion that competent adults are first level. Make the starting point fourth level, remove the incongruity of skill ranks being level + 3 or (level + 3)/2, spread the class abilities over those first four levels, and remove the front-loading problems of Ranger's virtual feats, multiclassing into Wizard to get so many spells at once, etc.

Starting at first level is -- dare I say it? -- a sacred cow.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

If people are really bent on using a rules crutch to simulate playing rookies, I'd still sugest staying away from the npc classes. I think a better option would be to modify the multiclass at level one rules and start off as a 1/2 level in you class. Put them at enough -xp for it to take as long as you like for them to stay rookies.

 

[mmadsen]

If people are really bent on using a rules crutch to simulate playing rookies...

Do you eschew the crutch of using high-level characters to represent epic heroes?

 

[Dust]

Perspective, Please

Dear Lord, I think a number of you are taking this way too seriously.
I would never force someone to play in a game like this, but if I were to run one it would be because we all thought it might be fun to try.
I made no claims at all about the relative worths of players who would or would not enjoy this. I made no derogatory statements or objectionable comparisons of any kind. All I wanted to know was if anyone had experience or ideas relating to this concept.
To those of you who were helpful, who provided some actual feedback (even if it was negative): thank you.
To those of you who insisted on making this about something it actually had nothing to do with, and to those of you who insisted on bringing your own baggage into it in a way that was not constructive: don't you have something better to do, something that you enjoy that could be filling up your time? It's not about elitism, it's not about superiority. It's about trying something new with the rules, and wondering whether and in what ways it would be feasable to do that. I'm sure that there are fantasy RPGs out there that have the starting power level much lower than DnD, and I'm sure that you don't harass people who like those games.

To sum up: I think it might be fun. I have some players who think it might be fun. There are other people who read these boards who agree, and I wanted their ideas. That was all. Any insult or imagined bias/elitism is purely the creation of the person claiming it.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Do you eschew the crutch of using high-level characters to represent epic heroes?

Yes I do. You don't need to be x level to play a character who is an epic hero. Obviously somehere there is a line where it becomes hard to beleive that x level character is either a rookie or an epic level hero, but saying level one PCs are too good to adequetly play some kind of rookie adventure is just silly.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Look, some people have fun playing nobodies.

What's elite or condescending in that? I don't know about anybody else here, but I have just as much fun playing a wizard destined for 20 fireballs a day as I have playing a pitchfork-wielding peasant destined to maybe survive the night where zombies infest the town.

It's just a different style of game. I'm saying that playing NPC classes is a valid way to simulate low-power in the current D&D system. You're free to disagree, but I'm not sure why it's invalid or how it could *not* simulate low-power D&D.

It's not that regular D&D is "too" high powered. It's right at the level it needs to be. But there's no harm in going for variants, eh?

Playing a peasant doesn't give you some cherished insight into the nature of a hero. Pheh. It just lets you be intimidated by one goblin with a dagger for little while, which, while not heroic, can be a load of fun.

 

[Dust]

Hear Hear

Look, some people have fun playing nobodies.

What's elite or condescending in that? I don't know about anybody else here, but I have just as much fun playing a wizard destined for 20 fireballs a day as I have playing a pitchfork-wielding peasant destined to maybe survive the night where zombies infest the town.

It's just a different style of game. I'm saying that playing NPC classes is a valid way to simulate low-power in the current D&D system. You're free to disagree, but I'm not sure why it's invalid or how it could *not* simulate low-power D&D.

It's not that regular D&D is "too" high powered. It's right at the level it needs to be. But there's no harm in going for variants, eh?

Playing a peasant doesn't give you some cherished insight into the nature of a hero. Pheh. It just lets you be intimidated by one goblin with a dagger for little while, which, while not heroic, can be a load of fun.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Mordax_sighs]

A go away to play NERO for a couple of days, and everything goes crazy 'round here...

It's not that regular D&D is "too" high powered. It's right at the level it needs to be. But there's no harm in going for variants, eh?

This is exactly my point.

There are some people who are perfectly happy to play the same old D&D for 30 years. Same old "start at 1st level, whack orcs and collect copper. End at level 10+, whacking dragons and collecting magic widgets."

I'll admit that I still do that sometimes, but mostly it's boring now. I mean, I've been playing D&D since grade school. I don't know about you guys, but I've really experienced enough tombs and dragons and orcish bandits and stuff. Been there, done that. I'd rather move on to something, *anything* else.

As for the merits of various genres:

Peasants?
It's a chance to use your noggin for defeating orcs and zombies with everyday farming tools. That can be anything from CoC grim to 3 Stooges slapstick.

Epic heroes?
It's a chance to juggle dozens of magical effects, and try and handle situations you'll never, ever see in a normal campaign (trips to Hell, etc.).

Something completely different?
If my players wanted to play aquatic elves, and never see the surface, I'd give it a go. It would be *so* weird.

That's what this is about. Trying to make the old hobby into something shiny and new. Much like how I don't eat the same food every day.

You guys who can't wrap your brains around that idea...
All I have to say is, I'm glad TV hasn't affected your attention spans - I'll bet you can watch paint dry, too.

 

[hong]

I'll admit that I still do that sometimes, but mostly it's boring now. I mean, I've been playing D&D since grade school. I don't know about you guys, but I've really experienced enough tombs and dragons and orcish bandits and stuff. Been there, done that. I'd rather move on to something, *anything* else.

When I have this problem, I play Counterstrike.