TSR Companies & Freelancers Distance Themselves From The New TSR

The new TSR (which I refer to as TSR3 to avoid confusion) has doubled down on its stance--which has been widely condemned online--via an ongoing series of tweets and replies from its TSR Games, Giantlands, and Dungeon Hobby Museum social media accounts (possibly operated by Justin LaNasa) in an astonishing PR campaign which makes the original interview which sparked off the controversy look mild in comparison. Various entities are moving to distance themselves from the company and its activities, including TSR2, the company founded in 2011 by Jayson Elliot, which has now declared that it will not be using the name TSR any longer. Other companies including Gen Con and freelancers such as Jeff Dee have also made statements.

For reference -- TSR1 is the (no longer existing) company which launched D&D in 1974, TSR2 is the company founded by Jayson Elliot in 2011 to create Gygax Magazine and which currently publishes the Top Secret RPG, and TSR3 is the newly launched company.

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Catch up on my previous coverage of this story:

TSR - Ernie Gygax on New TSR, WotC Beefs, Trademarks, Licensees, 5E, & More

A YouTube channel, 'Live From the Bunker', interviewed Ernie Gygax about the new TSR. I've watched and decided to try to transcribe the most relevant parts of it, but the full hour-long video is below if you want to see the whole interview and full context. Ernie Gygax is one of D&D...

www.enworld.org

TSR - TSR (2) Confirms TSR (3)'s Acquisition of Trademark (Updated!)

Jayson Elliot registered the TSR trademark back in 2011 and used it to launch Gygax Magazine along with Ernie and Luke Gygax. The two Gygax's left the company a few years later after Gary Gygax's (co-founder of TSR (1) back in the 1970s) widow, Gail Gygax, forced the closure of Gygax Magazine...

www.enworld.org

A TSR Announces a Star Frontiers Reboot

One of the new TSRs (yes there are now two TSRs!) has announced a reboot of Star Frontiers, the sci-fi game made by the original TSR back in the 1980s. Star Frontiers was a percentile dice roleplaying game set in a galaxy with four races (Human, Dralasite, Vrusk, and Yazirian) which were re-used...

www.enworld.org

TSR - TSR Is Back.... Again!

TSR is back... again! A new company, using the name and logo of the original publisher of Dungeons & Dragons has just been launched, along with a limited edition new game called Giantlands, and a theme park! But first, some history! Because this isn't the first time TSR has been resurrected...

www.enworld.org

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TSR3's social media accounts initially sought to distance the company from Ernie Gygax's statements, but within a few hours had reversed course and doubled down on his stance. Note that there have been dozens of social media posts from the company over the last few days, and still continuing as I type this, and I don't intend to share them all here.

(Thanks to Daniel Fox for sharing screenshots below via Twitter).

TSR2 -- "Update to our earlier tweet - we will NOT be licensing anything from the new company claiming rights to the TSR logos. We are not working with them in any fashion."

Gen Con -- "Gen Con is not associated with TSR Games and we don't support their recent statements. While the foundation of Gen Con is tied with the history of TTRPGs, our goal is to build off the good, acknowledge the bad, and work toward a present free from racism, misogyny, and homophobia."

Gen Con has also indicated that they do not intend to allow TSR3 at the convention.

GAMA (the Game Manufacturers Association) -- "We’re aware of the appalling statements published by TSR Games and their founder - GAMA does not condone nor agree with any part of it. We pride ourselves on supporting and promoting inclusivity always. Our motto is “A game at every table, a table for everyone”. Transphobia, racism, and sexism will not be tolerated. That means that TSR is not welcome at Origins Game Fair, GAMA Expo or any event affiliated with our organization."

Jeff Dee -- "There is a rumor going around that I am part of this new TSR company. That is not accurate. I have done some work for them as a freelance artist. That’s how I make my living, and spreading the misinformation that I’m now employed full-time by one particular client could stop other clients from approaching me and hurt my business. So, please do not spread that rumor. If I ever become a full-time employee anywhere again, I will announce that myself. Thanks. UPDATE: After investigating reports about statements made by representatives of this new TSR, I have determined that I can no longer do business with them in good conscience. I've returned their downpayment on the next piece of art I was scheduled to do for them. And yeah, I could sure use some new commissions to make up for this big hit on my cashflow"

Jim Ward, an original TSR alumnus and who wrote Giantlands, TSR3's flagship product -- "At the present time I know little or nothing about the relaunch of TSR. Right now I don't see how anyone could pick up where the old company left off. Yes it's a name with some logos, that is all I know."

Luke Gygax -- "FYI- I am not involved with any TSR company nor is Gary Con nor anyone else in my family outside of Ernie. Full stop. That is all ... I have reasons for distancing myself. The way TSR treats people online in their public exchanges is rude. The museum is a for profit business and was asking for donations. Using names of people to promote without their knowledge. Going out of the way to talk gender/woke stuff ... Also basically jacking the TSR logo from Jayson Elliot. The bombastic press releases and claims to old IP. Making a quick nostalgia money grab based on my fathers name and not much else. So I’m making it clear I don’t like this style and I have ZERO to do with TSR"

TSR3 responds to Luke Gygax​

Tim Kask, an original TSR alumnus who worked at the company until 1980, spoke at length on this topic in a YouTube video (below). I've transcribed some bits, but he says a whole load more (ellipses represent sections I have not included, for reasons of brevity), so check out the video for the whole thing.

"There has been bandied about in social media over the last several days several claims about what's going on in Lake Geneva right now. Ernie Gygax made a most egregious mistake in an interview he did on a podcast. He basically waved his bare ass in front of everybody that's concerned about pronouns, and woke, and all that right now in the industry and thumbed his nose at them. The transcript of his podcasts are there for everyone to read. That they were men, and they didn't give a sh*t, and la la la.

But right there they alienated three quarters of the gaming industry. Probably more than that, I don't believe that there's a quarter of the gaming industry that still are the neanderthals that he would make us out to be.

That's another thing. This whole thing has brought the OSR (the old school revival) into serious disrepute. Now there are some little Karens going on some of the social media and painting with the same brush all of us that were there back then based on the stupid ass sh*t that Ernie just said. No. We weren't all like that. And we aren't all like that now. He's a troll, a troglodyte, a neanderthal, if he really means that. It's a foolish person that doesn't wet his finger once in a while and feel the wind shift.

Now there've been claims in a couple of posts, one of which is by Ernie, about how the stalwarts, the old TSR are flocking to the banner. Bullsh*t....

... There is no one of the creative side of TSR from the early days involved with the Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum. No one. Not one creative person. No matter who might be claiming what, they simply do not have the credentials. Being named DiMaggio does not mean you can hit a lot of home runs. Or that you even hit any home runs ....

... Just because you say you're TSR doesn't mean you are."

​

 

[aco175]

I must say that there has been a large shift or awareness over the last year. Certain things I have not thought about or known about because I do not know anyone that plays that is LGBTQ. It has not affected me. I'll also say that I have certain views of playing that has been going on since 1e and it was just the way things have been. Sometimes change is slow for people like me that are not part of things.

I'm playing the box set Icespire Peak right now that came out only a couple years ago. In it, orcs are the antagonistic race threatening the town and the PCs. I have not changed the box to reflect what everyone is talking about and playing it mostly as written. And this was just a couple years ago.

I think saying, have patience for change to come is short of what I intend. I think a lot of people are in the boat like me that does not move as fast as some would want. I do not think that anyone in these groups should stop pushing for their ideals and equality. I do not even know what some of the acronyms are that people are using and need to look them up and not sure when I would be comfortable using them in the right context.

Not sure if this helps or if there are others in the same group as me.

 

[Charlaquin]

Just want to be clear here, as it seems my post is being misrepresented here, my intention for saying "formerly ****," was not advocation of using that name, it was just meant to point out that Jennell is trans, and as an aide for people who want to web search her material.

You know, it is possible to point out someone is trans without using their dead name. If people want to find her older material, searching by her last name should suffice.

 

[billd91]

What I get from Mr. Kuntz statement is not that there are no attacks on transgender people (or any LGBTQ for that matter). It is that society does not approve of doing such hateful acts anymore. And that is a good thing.

Does society disapprove? That's kind of what we're fighting with now here in the US where there are groups finding it politically advantageous to deny life protecting health care from transgender people. So does society disapprove? And does it do so reliably enough for trans people to feel as safe as cisgendered people?

 

[Bolares]

What I get from Mr. Kuntz statement is not that there are no attacks on transgender people (or any LGBTQ for that matter). It is that society does not approve of doing such hateful acts anymore.

Again, this point of view is VERY focused on the reality of just part of the world... Equalitty is far from being a realitty, and even legal protection from abuse is not the norm everywhere, I'd respectfully ask you to check your privileges on this matter.

 

[Umbran]

People who want to find old material written by her can easily find it online. There is no need to use dead names.

Mod note:

I have been told by more than one trans gamer that mentioning the name of an artist strictly for historical context to make it clear the work is by the same person is usually acceptable, because attributing creative work is terribly important. If trans posters on these boards do not like this approach, please drop one of the mods a PM. Thanks.

 

[Gradine]

Just want to be clear here, as it seems my post is being misrepresented here, my intention for saying "formerly Paul," was not advocation of using that name, it was just meant to point out that Jennell is trans, and as an aide for people who want to web search her material.

Sadly, there is still a lot of material being attributed to the former name instead of Jennell. This is probably not intentional and is instead just legacy sites not yet catching up, but I did want folks to know Jennell's former name if they want to look up her work. The below is one such example that is on Amazon right now.

View attachment 139045

I'm not trying to misrepresent you or anything, just inform that, even if you were weel intentioned, dead naming some one is bad. There are a lot of ways to point out that Jennell is trans, like just saying, "Jennell is trans".

People who want to find old material written by her can easily find it online. There is no need to use dead names.

This. No one is accusing you of ill intent; just that you probably should not contribute to the issue by continuing to refer to them as their deadname, yourself, and that in addition you should probably edit it out of your prior post.

 

[Willie the Duck]

Did I accuse you of something? No. It's interesting to me from many different perspective. In a related thread to this topic I have read a post calling for the utter ruination of Ernie Gygax, and if that were not possible then as a consolation prize just him not making money and being disfranchised. For what? Well for having what little information we know, some bad I agree, and for this, the man should be ruined. That is not love, that is not growth, that is not learning, that is not progression, that is not... human? Or is it human, too human, as we've seen and perhaps experienced in human history? The mob wants its pound of flesh, and so the tables are turned, the hunter becomes the hunted? Well, not sure. No, really. Ernie hunts no one, he has gay friends, mutual with me in fact in some cases, Ernie wouldn't harm a flea. He's just being stupid is all I can assume. But for this, for not knowing Ernie, or for him expressing some ignorance and ill chosen words, blood is required, just for being human, an imperfect being, no chance, no future, already condemned in the court of public opinion. Sound familiar? It just might. I do not condone his words, but I also do not condemn him, as humans progress, humans change. But not when the mob is in charge, there is no such thing. The mob wants its pound of flesh, its blood. I have found the whole ordeal very sad on many levels.

Mr. Kuntz,
Let me start by thanking you for your contributions to games that have had a profound impact on my life.
Let me also start by saying I think I know the point you are trying to make. Something along the lines of a combination of, 'if people don't allow for others to redeem themselves, then they have no incentive to change,' and, 'you don't change the minds of people who do not already agree with your position by shouting them into the ground.' I've expressed similar views about people upon which I have not wanted to give up, and hope that others would not either. There are times and places where that response is correct and appropriate.

This, however, is not such a case. Predominantly because there is no great mob screaming for blood. There is just a small group of potential game-buyers who have seen this interview that have critical things to say, and probably will not be purchasing the potential products, if any happen to be forthcoming. That's the free market system doing what it is supposed to. No blood, no flesh, no violence, nor any ruination or disenfranchisement of any Ernie from any money to which he was owed. Instead, quite simply, Ernie will not receive the money of potential purchasers for whom he has now failed to make a sale. That's it. Someone with no real recent track record tries to make a sales pitch that people should take a chance on them, and fails spectacularly. The end.

 

[Malmuria]

And at the same time, he/she/they who use cancellation instead of discussion are doing the exact same thing as the bigots are doing. And when you use the same weapons as your opponents, you become no better that they are. Let us not confuse our progressive society with misguided, brainwashed individuals.

Who is being cancelled? Ernie Gygax? Because again, there's nothing there to "cancel." He hasn't done anything of note except try to cash in on his family name.

I will not buy anything from 3SR, but I do not wish them ill. Let our wallets speak out for us. This will speak louder than any demeaning words we might have.

If it means anything, "cancelling" means something like boycotting a person's products or company. Also, what counts as "demeaning words" vs the "discussion" you speak of above?

 

[thirdkingdom]

Tangentially, Ryan Thompson of Appendix N Entertainment designed and distributes a really nice "OSR for all" logo that is licensed for Creative Common usage. It's a good way of showing support of marginalized communities on OSR products (and it's free to use!).

DriveThruRPG

www.drivethrurpg.com

 

[teitan]

Marvel and DC have corporate masters who want their comics to be fare for the movies. I suspect, absent that pressure, they'd be doing great. (And of course, some of the indies are also in the business of producing limited run comic books for Hollywood types to storyboard and concept out their ideas that they can then say "based on the hit comic book" once they're greenlit as films.)

I don't think Fox licenses coming to Marvel is a sign of fear, so much as bean-counters at corporate saying they'd make more money with Alien, etc., in house rather than licensing it to Dark Horse.

Yes. Exactly what I said.