Complete Arcane - What's in it!!

[Saeviomagy]

(Has played one too and allowed one.) I even got a Ring of Mesos when I played. But believe me I wasn't as cheesed running a Blessed of Mesos than I was running it.

Guilt is bad but not as bad to using BoM as a plot device.

Eh? Please rephrase. I didn't understand any of that. And not just because I've no idea what a blessed of mesos/ring of mesos does...

I think you meant to say "Wizard, Sorceror, Rogue and Bard and some clerics (depending) treasure" right?

I mean, it isn't really much different from saying that a magic bastard sword is "fighter, paladin, barbarian and ranger only treasure", potentially. Not all treasure is going to be equally useful....which is why lots of it often gets sold.

I was referring to spells as part of a spellbook actually, which is where you get your really big haul of copyable spells (and you should almost never scribe from a scroll - just get someone to show you their copy...)

A magic bastard sword is of use to anyone with martial weapon proficiency, and can still be used by anyone even without it. A spellbook containing level 6 spells is only of use to someone with 11 levels of wizard casting available...

 

[Nightfall]

It's from Scarred Lands. Nightfall is unreasonably biased, so ignore him.

Geoff.

Not necessarily unreasonable, but I will admit bias.

And yes you folks can ignore me if you wish. So far though few have been able to shut me off.

Gez,

Eh. I figured Mesos spread himself across the multiverse when he when boom/sunder.

Sae,

I played a Sorcerer/Blessed of Mesos. I got a ring of Mesos before I even hit 8th level which is when you generally qualify for Blessed of Mesos. Ring of Mesos acts like a more powerful ring of wizardry but it increases the number of spells 1st through 4th. I felt dirty doing so since the power of the Blessed of Mesos, (as one of its special abilities) grants me MORE Known spells than just blowing feats for Extra slots, based on my Cha Score. (However because of the requirements for the class, I still have to burn available slots for my Scion Feat which is what powers the Blessed of Mesos). So combined with that, I could, in theory, out blast a War Mage or even a Warlock. And that's not even counting the fact I get at 5th level of the class, the ability to counterspell just rolling opposed Spellcraft versus some other spellcaster (any spellcaster's) Concentration check. (DC is my Spellcraft roll.) Oh and I also can cast using Concentration checks and a pool of points that allow me to freely cast (without taking a full round action), any metamagic feat I know. (Same is true of the ring but the combined might is very cool nonetheless.)

HOWEVER, when I ran a Scarred Lands game with a PC using Blessed of Mesos, it was quite fun. I had his blood "sing' alot and have effects akin to "spellfire" in terms of it was reactive to many different magic effects and/or blood memories. Overall I didn't see him blast away much of anything. (Course I'm not STUPID enough to let him see them coming but still!)

So while I felt guilty for PLAYING a Blessed of Mesos, I had 0 compunction about having one in my Scarred Lands game. And I still don't.

 

[coyote6]

Re: Spellpool -- in both T&B and CA (and whatever book the Waterdeep version appeared in, too, IIRC), a mage can't draw more total levels of spells from the Spellpool per day than half their caster level. So, the Wiz6/MotAO4 can draw up to 5 levels of spells per day -- five 1st level, 1 5th, a 2nd & a 3rd, or whatever.

Now, in T&B, a spellcaster could dump spells in the Spellpool ahead of time, and thus run up a Spellpool "credit". In CA, you aren't allowed to build up credit, and they specify the time limit between drawing on the Spellpool and paying back the debt (IIRC, a day per class level) -- past that, and you lose access to the Spellpool until you're paid up. Run a debt for more than a year, and you're kicked out.

 

[Banshee16]

Not necessarily unreasonable, but I will admit bias.

And yes you folks can ignore me if you wish. So far though few have been able to shut me off.

Gez,

Eh. I figured Mesos spread himself across the multiverse when he when boom/sunder.

Sae,

I played a Sorcerer/Blessed of Mesos. I got a ring of Mesos before I even hit 8th level which is when you generally qualify for Blessed of Mesos. Ring of Mesos acts like a more powerful ring of wizardry but it increases the number of spells 1st through 4th. I felt dirty doing so since the power of the Blessed of Mesos, (as one of its special abilities) grants me MORE Known spells than just blowing feats for Extra slots, based on my Cha Score. (However because of the requirements for the class, I still have to burn available slots for my Scion Feat which is what powers the Blessed of Mesos). So combined with that, I could, in theory, out blast a War Mage or even a Warlock. And that's not even counting the fact I get at 5th level of the class, the ability to counterspell just rolling opposed Spellcraft versus some other spellcaster (any spellcaster's) Concentration check. (DC is my Spellcraft roll.) Oh and I also can cast using Concentration checks and a pool of points that allow me to freely cast (without taking a full round action), any metamagic feat I know. (Same is true of the ring but the combined might is very cool nonetheless.)

HOWEVER, when I ran a Scarred Lands game with a PC using Blessed of Mesos, it was quite fun. I had his blood "sing' alot and have effects akin to "spellfire" in terms of it was reactive to many different magic effects and/or blood memories. Overall I didn't see him blast away much of anything. (Course I'm not STUPID enough to let him see them coming but still!)

So while I felt guilty for PLAYING a Blessed of Mesos, I had 0 compunction about having one in my Scarred Lands game. And I still don't.

Thanks for the info Nightfall. I'll have to see if I can see a copy in one of my local stores. I just found a new one recently, so I'll check them out.

I'm a little unsure of the Blessed of Mesos, but I think I can make up my opinion after seeing it.

I did flip through the book at one point, and saw a prestige class that seemed to be for sorcerers with celestial bloodlines, that looked interesting, but I can't remember what it did.

Banshee

 

[Timeboxer]

The other guy was assuming one would have to buy each spells from scrolls, but you were talking like you can always find a wizard who lets you copy any spell you need for the minimum price. I just wanted to point out that both were having extreme circumstances on their mind.

Actually, I usually can copy any spell I need for no cost other than the scribing costs. My GM is fairly good about this; it mostly consists of hunting down another mage and offering to trade access to spells of equal level. They're theoretically worth the same, after all, so -- no money exchanged. The only problem is availability.

By the way, I don't think the feat is overpowered. As, I think, Andy Collins said at one point -- anything that you can get your players to spend on something that does not have an immediate combat benefit is a good thing. Feats fall into this category.

 

[Magus Coeruleus]

-Resist Energy, Mass (4th Wiz, 3rd Cleric): This is an awesome spell. Blue Dragon attacking ? After the cleric's init, EVERYONE laughs at his breath weapon.

3rd level for cleric? Wow, even though the normal version is 2nd level? Does it work the same except for affecting something like 1 character per level? That seems extreme to jump from regular as a 2nd level spell to mass at 3rd!

 

[Nightfall]

I did flip through the book at one point, and saw a prestige class that seemed to be for sorcerers with celestial bloodlines, that looked interesting, but I can't remember what it did.

Banshee

That would be Angel blooded using the Child of Heavens Scion feat. It basically allows the arcane spellcaster to start casting some divine spells as well as change into a slightly less powerful half celestial.

I always let people make up their own mind even if I'm biased. In any event I do think comparative wise, PG: Wizards, Bards and Sorcerers is very good but probably not on par in some respects as Complete Arcane. Same is true with Complete Warrior versus PG: Fighters and Barbarians. (Though I completely dug the Totem feats.) I did however favor PG: Clerics and Druids over Complete Divine, but that's just because it was more thorough.

Just some comments on that really.

 

[beaver1024]

3rd level for cleric? Wow, even though the normal version is 2nd level? Does it work the same except for affecting something like 1 character per level? That seems extreme to jump from regular as a 2nd level spell to mass at 3rd!

Because the cleric spell list is so underpowered compared to the arcane spell list that it needs beefing up.

 

[Trainz]

Because the cleric spell list is so underpowered compared to the arcane spell list that it needs beefing up.

I'm assuming that was irony...

I just love the cleric. The base cleric is cool, the CD cleric is cooler, and now the CD-CA cleric is coolest !

That said, as long as not everyone in the team wants to play a cleric, I think the class is still not THAT overpowered.

 

[Gort]

Yeah, but if you were an evil supervillain nerd and tied up a bunch of veteran D&Ders and said, "Okay, we're going to play D&D, but if your character dies, I'll shoot you!" you'll end up with a team entirely made out of clerics and druids.

Just cause people don't necessarily want to play a religious nut or a nature boy does not stop those two classes from being the most powerful.