Complete Scoundrel Here

[Pazu]

Has this book actually had its official release yet?

 

[Psion]

Finally got mine today.

So far, I like it. I really think it hits the mark on the "book for all classes" department in a way few others in the series have. It seems like it will slot into my brand of social-and-skill based play in a way that few other books in the "back to the dungeon" era have.

I continue to appreciate the sample characters for the prestige classes. This is a particularly interesting batch. Nice little wink to the Dungeon adventure with a revamped Swan Street Slayer there. Did the text even point out that was from an adventure? Other sample characters amused me, showing me a bit more creativity that what I expect from stock characters.

Tricks... I still think they should be feats, sorry. But I can understand why they weren't. I'm one of those people on the "there aren't enough feats" bandwagon. The authors had their way of surmounting the limitation, I have mine. I could see tricks slipping in as my "lesser" feats.

 

[|)ar|{]

Could I trouble someone to post the luck feats and a little more about the fortune's friend class? Trying to get luck domain cleric together for a game and CS still isn't in the local store. Thanks in advance
-Dark

 

[MKMcArtor]

Aww, Mike, it's a really fun class. You should give it a try. Did some Warlock PC or NPC made your character's feelings hurt? If so, I can understand.

Cause I do it to my players or they do it to themselves all the time heh heh

A warlock kicked my puppy.

Here's a paddle, get on the boat with the rest of us

*grabs a paddle*

I continue to appreciate the sample characters for the prestige classes. This is a particularly interesting batch. Nice little wink to the Dungeon adventure with a revamped Swan Street Slayer there. Did the text even point out that was from an adventure? Other sample characters amused me, showing me a bit more creativity that what I expect from stock characters.

Thanks, I'm glad you liked our sample characters! Wes put in the revamped Swan Street Slayer. He knows a lot more about continuity in D&D than I do.

 

[Li Shenron]

Tricks... I still think they should be feats, sorry. But I can understand why they weren't. I'm one of those people on the "there aren't enough feats" bandwagon. The authors had their way of surmounting the limitation, I have mine. I could see tricks slipping in as my "lesser" feats.

That's what I thought too: these tricks seem to be one-time abilities like feats, but with a benefit that isn't definitely worth spending a whole feat. Furthermore, they probably thought that since these tricks cover skill usage, they are more appropriate for skillful characters (Rogues first) who don't have bonus feats but can spend some of their many skill points.

Incidentally, Speak Language could be the precursor of tricks since it costs 2 skill points (except for Bards).

But IMO the mistake (which is clearly mentioned in the CSco preview) is to think that characters were not able to do these stunts before, and now they are...

We've always had characters swinging from chandeliers or using whips like Indiana Jones, these actions need nothing more than a skill check, and the only DM job needed is to assign a proper DC.

But maybe nowadays the most popular school of thought is that "if it ain't written, it can' be in your game".

 

[Razz]

After looking over Skill Tricks I do agree with some here. Some of the skill tricks would've actually made great feats. The others were either already created as feats or are fine as skill tricks.

Here's what I think should've been or already are feats:

INTERACTION
Group Fake-Out
Never Outnumbered
Timely Misdirection

MANIPULATION
Conceal Spellcasting (I believe this was already done as a feat, can't remember where)
Easy Escape (already done as a feat called Clever Wrestling)
Hidden Blade (they have a feat called Flick of the Wrist that does this I believe)
Mosquito's Bite
Quick Escape

MENTAL
Magical Appraisal (there's a feat either in Complete Arcane or Complete Mage that does this already)
Spot the Weak Point (there's a feat in Draconomicon called that is similar to this, it ignores armor and natural armor bonuses called Deft Strike...though this trick is better as it's a touch attack)

MOVEMENT
Acrobatic Backstab (this would make a great feat!)
Back on Your Feet (this can be done with the Tumble skill if your check is high enough, I believe DC 35 or 40, from Oriental Adventures)
Escape Attack
Nimble Stand (same as Back on Your Feet, though that trick lets you stand as an immediate action so maybe it trumps this one?)
Twisted Charge (already done as two feats, Fleet of Foot and the psionic feat Psionic Charge)

Well, those are what I think would be good feats. The rest are fine as skill tricks.


So Mike McArtor, what exactly constitutes as a skill trick? The sidebar gives an idea, but as you can see some of these tricks make good, if not great, feats. Though the sidebar stated skill tricks really wouldn't make great feats because players would not use them as often. However, a good example, Acrobatic Backstab many characters would love to take advantage of constantly. Tumbling by a foe and next attack counts the target as flat-footed...heck, it'd be broken as a feat, heh. It'd make a good Epic Feat.

 

[|)ar|{]

It appears that most of the high level required tricks are as good as many feats. As my groups tend to play the lower level range tricks seem perfectly balanced but I can see them causing some balance issues at higher level. Still have to get my copy and play test some to be sure. Has anyone got a chance to try some of the higher level tricks.

Dark


<looks around for luck feats>

 

[Razz]

So far only one player in my group has taken a skill trick and it's Sudden Strike. He has a character with daggers concealed all over him and he's a Rogue/Invisible Blade/Master Thrower. With Combat Reflexes feat he has plans on whooping out those daggers everytime he gets an AoO

 

[EvolutionKB]

Mike,

Did you have imput on the Avenging Executioner? If so, what was your inspiration and did it turn out like you wanted it to? What are everybody else's opinions on this PrC?

 

[Nightfall]

*is going to have to hold off on any RPG purchases* Mostly because I'm in school and my fundage is limited.

Doesn't mean I don't think, from what Psion said at least, it seems like a good book.