Complete Warrior and Miniatures Handbook Base Classes

[Twiggly the Gnome]

I got both of these books the other day and here are my first impressions of the new base classes -

Hexblade - I like this one, it's very invocative of the warlock archetype.

Samurai - I don't care for this one, I think I'll stick with the OA version.

Swashbuckler - Not bad, but I get the feeling that Duelist PrC levels would be required to create a character that fits my ideal version of that archetype.

Favored Soul - This one seems a bit idiosyncratic for a base class. If a class needs two or more words to describe it, it's usually better off as a PrC. One thing I found very off-putting was the idea of neutral character choosing between feathered or leathery wings, if I were to use this class, morally neutral characters would get gossamer wings.

Healer - This is another good one, it has a lot of mythic resonance. I can't see many players choosing this as their only character, but it seems like a good choice for a friendly NPC or a player's secondary PC in game where they play more than one member of a adventuring party.

Marshal - I think this class works best in a campaign with a heavy mass combat component. In a standard campaign I think I'd be better off using the Noble class to fill a similar role.

Warmage - I don't see any major problems with this class except that it, like the Sorcerer, is a bit bland.

 

[Uriel]

Healer - This is another good one, it has a lot of mythic resonance. I can't see many players choosing this as their only character, but it seems like a good choice for a friendly NPC or a player's secondary PC in game where they play more than one member of a adventuring party.

Marshal - I think this class works best in a campaign with a heavy mass combat component. In a standard campaign I think I'd be better off using the Noble class to fill a similar role.

I like the Healer, although I am taking the 'God' aspect out completely.
It would be nice to have someone capable of healing that wasn;t beholden to a Deity, using the energies of the World etc... to heal trouble/wounds.

I actually like the Marshall quite a lot right now.
I have only used them in PbPs as-of-yet (to very good effect against my PCs), but I think that this is a very strong class when one has a game centuring on combat or 'epic' (feel, not Lvl 20+) level conflicts.
I have been waiting for a class like this for a long while, being a miniatures (not Warhammer...) game enthusist, and I look forward to using them in an upcoming D&D game where the PCs are a mercinary band (troops etc...).

 

[pawsplay]

Hexblade - Very flavorful. Depending on how you look at them, they could be considered reverse paladins or reverse bards. My only real criticism on them is that they are not very compatible with very many prestige classes.

Samurai - Yuck. Not only are they railroaded into a very specific, and wildly unhistorical, version of what a samurai is, they don't have much to boast about compared to a Fighter with Kiai Feats. Also, boys and girls, a katana should have been treated as a bastard scimitar from the start, not a bastard sword. Swords have two edges. They are also rather, um, different to wield than say an early claymore type weapon.

Swashbuckler - Nicely done. Highly compatible with Duellist and Bladesinger.

Favored Soul - Lame. In the overpowered department, they have three good saves, cast spontaneously in armor, and gain Weapon Specialization (trampling the only unique Fighter ability). In the "What were they thinking?" department, they get wings. Even Dwarven Favored Souls of Moradin, a concept so ludicrous they had to illustrate it. Am I the only one who thinks they should also have offered burrowing or swimming as options instead of wings? In the "what is this class supposed to be?" department, they do not get Domains. Which means they do not get Domain spells. Which means a Favored Soul of Heironeous cannot cast smite evil. They, like Healers, combine Cha and Wis for their spellcasting abilities (but in a reverse fashion, for no discernible reason), which makes me nervous. It's just not done, man.

Marshal - Potentially interesting. Marred by the oddness, in a roleplaying situation, of their ability to inspire extra move actions repeatedly in the same combat, such that one side ends up being a lot faster. I find it a little odd that they can grant DR to their entire team at pretty low levels, while Barbarians gain DR only for themselves at higher levels. They seem to add a lot of bookkeeping. However, they do fit certain concepts. Marshal/Cavalier springs to mind as an interesting character. However, Marshal/various knight PrCs are problematic because of bonus stacking rules.

Healer - Sure, why not? I think they should have been straight up Cha casters, though.

Battlemage - A nice idea, not sure. At first they seemd overpowered: long spell list, spontaneous caster, armored mage. However, they don't get good weapon proficiencies, and their spellcasting is pretty focused. I could see them being unusually efficient in some games, but in the average game are probably fine. I would like to point out that's it's possible for them to use Advanced Learning to take high level Wizard spells if they piddle around in a PrC for a little while, but not if they single-class it. I suspect that they open up various abuses with PrC's that have full spell progression, but I haven't spotted any howlers, yet.

 

[marshaldwm]

I got both of these books the other day and here are my first impressions of the new base classes -

Hexblade - I like this one, it's very invocative of the warlock archetype.

Samurai - I don't care for this one, I think I'll stick with the OA version.

Swashbuckler - Not bad, but I get the feeling that Duelist PrC levels would be required to create a character that fits my ideal version of that archetype.

Favored Soul - This one seems a bit idiosyncratic for a base class. If a class needs two or more words to describe it, it's usually better off as a PrC. One thing I found very off-putting was the idea of neutral character choosing between feathered or leathery wings, if I were to use this class, morally neutral characters would get gossamer wings.

Healer - This is another good one, it has a lot of mythic resonance. I can't see many players choosing this as their only character, but it seems like a good choice for a friendly NPC or a player's secondary PC in game where they play more than one member of a adventuring party.

Marshal - I think this class works best in a campaign with a heavy mass combat component. In a standard campaign I think I'd be better off using the Noble class to fill a similar role.

Warmage - I don't see any major problems with this class except that it, like the Sorcerer, is a bit bland.

Yes, a bonanza of new base classes. I was quite impressed with both books.

As for specific thoughts, I do not really thing the Hexblade, Favored Soul or Healer are very impressive, all for different reasons. Hexblade mainly for survivability. Cruddy spells, horrible BAB progression and not much in thr way of good abilities for a few levels. Cool at 9+, but how do they live that long? As for Favored Souls, a great PRC, but as a base class, too odd. Healer, NPC is good, but I like my clerics to do a little more than machine gun heal all the time.

Now the otehrs are fun. Yes, Swashbucker leading into Duelist is really very sweet. Perhaps the first truely survivable noarmor build. And the MArshal can give out some really nice bonuses at low levels. a +3 or +4 on all saves of one type at first level is awfully good. And at second adding in a bonus of +1 damage for ll characters all the time. Much nicer than bless.

As for teh Samurai, I like him and I dislike him. One, his feat chains really do fit one version of the Samurai, though NO samurai used two blades historically. Could work in fantasy, though. As a plus, I like having two choices of Samurai for my upcoming OA game. Having OA samuai for one school, CW samuair for another school, and maybe even fighters disguised as samurai for another school. Really cool.

Lots of good choices, I highly recommend both books.

 

[Shazman]

Nto to be too snarky, but the hexblade gets a fighter's BAB and hit dice. I'd hardly call that horrible. Considering this, if the hexblade's spells were much better, it would definitely be an overpowered class. It's main survivability issue would be a low AC due to limited armor proficiency. Mainly a fighter type with some interesting abilities and spells to back them up. I personally like the class.

 

[Katowice]

Miniatures Handbook is interesting, but I couldn't shake the feeling that the RPG portions of the book should have been part of the Complete Warrior.

 

[Jin]

The swashbuckler base class bugs me. When I think swashbuckler, I think of a fully dex based class. I find it very odd that it has a poor reflex save. Personally, I’d give it good reflex & drop the hit dice to d8 or make fortitude a poor save.

 

[Gez]

Horrible BAB progression ? You mean it should be twice the Fighter's to be good ? Or that it's too much ? If so, why complain about the class' weakness ?

 

[pawsplay]

The swashbuckler's saves make sense to me. Swashbucklers are not known for dodging traps or dragonflame. And the last thing I want to see is a swashbuckler in plate mail dodging all over the place. So I think their Grace ability is a nice touch. It gives them some measure of quickness, but not to overshadow the Rogue or Bard, and again enforces their lightly armored condition.

 

[hong]

The swashbuckler's saves make sense to me. Swashbucklers are not known for dodging traps or dragonflame. And the last thing I want to see is a swashbuckler in plate mail dodging all over the place. So I think their Grace ability is a nice touch. It gives them some measure of quickness, but not to overshadow the Rogue or Bard, and again enforces their lightly armored condition.

It's kinda weird that the ranger gets a better Ref save than the swashbuckler, though.

Of course, I made up my own swashbuckling-type class years ago, so I may be biased.