Con and Int Increase Question

[Lord Zardoz]

When a character hits levels 4, 8, 12, etc, they can increase any one stat. For most stats, this is a non issue. Just adjust the modifiers to hit, damage, saves, whatever.

But if an 8th level character who had 13 Con increases his Con to 14, his hp per level bonus goes to 2. Is that give the character an additional HP for every previous level (total of 7 hp plus 1dX+2) or only for that and future levels (total of 2+1dX hp)? I have been assuming that he gets 7 + 1dX + 2 in that situation.

A tricker problem is an Int increase.

Also, an Int increase has an effect on skill points. If a 4th level character bumps his Int to 14 from 13, does he also gain the extra skill points he would have had if he started with 14 int? Or does he only get the extra skill points for this and every subsequent level.

Example: A Gnomish wizard with 13 Int starts with 12 skill points at first level, and gains 3 more for every level after that. At 4th level, he increases his int to 14.

1) Does he get 4 new skill points (2+Int Mod for new level)?
2) Does he get 7 new skill points (2+Int Mod + 3 for 3 previous levels).
3) Does he get 10 new skill points (2+Int Mod, +2 for levels 2 and 3, + 4 for level 1).

I have been assuming that #2 is correct, but I am not certain at all, and would like to know.,

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Pax]

When a character hits levels 4, 8, 12, etc, they can increase any one stat. For most stats, this is a non issue. Just adjust the modifiers to hit, damage, saves, whatever.

But if an 8th level character who had 13 Con increases his Con to 14, his hp per level bonus goes to 2. Is that give the character an additional HP for every previous level (total of 7 hp plus 1dX+2) or only for that and future levels (total of 2+1dX hp)? I have been assuming that he gets 7 + 1dX + 2 in that situation.

No; CONstitution increases and decreases are fully retroactive. Same character, 7th level, in an encounter with a creature that does temporary CON damage (poison, perhaps) ... if he takes 2 CON damage, his effective Constitution is 11(+0) ... and his hit points (both current and maximum) decreases by 7.

A tricker problem is an Int increase.

Also, an Int increase has an effect on skill points. If a 4th level character bumps his Int to 14 from 13, does he also gain the extra skill points he would have had if he started with 14 int? Or does he only get the extra skill points for this and every subsequent level.

INTelligence changes are never retroactive, neither up nor down.

Example: A Gnomish wizard with 13 Int starts with 12 skill points at first level, and gains 3 more for every level after that. At 4th level, he increases his int to 14.

1) Does he get 4 new skill points (2+Int Mod for new level)?
2) Does he get 7 new skill points (2+Int Mod + 3 for 3 previous levels).
3) Does he get 10 new skill points (2+Int Mod, +2 for levels 2 and 3, + 4 for level 1).

I have been assuming that #2 is correct, but I am not certain at all, and would like to know.,

END COMMUNICATION

#1 is correct for Intelligence issues. #2 would be correct (in principle / concept) for Constitution issues. This is covered in the PHB, I simply haven't my books for page numbers and whatnot.

 

[Crothian]

It's number one, skill points from Int are not retroactive.

 

[Mort]

Strangely enough, according to the rules, you do not adjudicate CON increase and INT increase in the same manor.

When CON increases you add any HP’s from the extra CON retroactively. So a 10th level character who would get +1 HP from CON gets 10 more HP’s. (Players Handbook p. 130)

When INT increases you only get the extra skill points from that level forward NOT retroactively. So, for example, increasing INT from 17 to 18 at 4th level gives you +1 skill point from 4th level onward but does not give extra skill points for levels 1-3. (Player’s Handbook p. 10)

[edit] gosh darnit I even checked to make sure no post popped up before mine but looks like it posted at the time I was hitting the post button. [edit]

 

[Douane]

Example: A Gnomish wizard with 13 Int starts with 12 skill points at first level, and gains 3 more for every level after that. At 4th level, he increases his int to 14.

1) Does he get 4 new skill points (2+Int Mod for new level)?
2) Does he get 7 new skill points (2+Int Mod + 3 for 3 previous levels).
3) Does he get 10 new skill points (2+Int Mod, +2 for levels 2 and 3, + 4 for level 1).

I have been assuming that #2 is correct, but I am not certain at all, and would like to know.,

END COMMUNICATION

According to the PHB, #1 is correct.

I'm referring to PHB, page 10, heading "Changing Ability Scores", last sentence: "She does not retroactively get additional points for her previous levels (. . .).

However, I find this to be a bookkeeping nightmare, so we use #3 IMC.


Hope this helps!

Folkert

[Edit: Damned! Too late! But at least I had an actual page of the PHB.]

 

[Xeoble]

Item Mods

Say i'm a rogue with an intelligence of 14 (+2) and i have an item that gives me +4 intelligence, from which do i derive skill points?

Do i get 10 skill points when i level because it's just worked off the base bonus or do i get 12 skill points because it's worked off my modified intelligence?

 

[Ran]

Strangely enough, according to the rules, you do not adjudicate CON increase and INT increase in the same manor.

It is all beacuse you do not learn retroactively, you are smarter NOW, and from NOW on you get things faster, and learn it better. Someone, maybe the sage said it this way... no exactly, but you get it.

Originally posted by Xeoble
Say i'm a rogue with an intelligence of 14 (+2) and i have an item that gives me +4 intelligence, from which do i derive skill points?

Do i get 10 skill points when i level because it's just worked off the base bonus or do i get 12 skill points because it's worked off my modified intelligence?

If you used the item during most part, or the whole last level, you may gain skills as if the poins were yours, the sage said it also... anyway, the question here would be how long during a level is enough...

 

[Lord Zardoz]

Thanks.

I was sure I was right about Con, and it seems you all agree. The one I was least certain about was Int.

Anyway, it would appear that the Int increase is a massively annoying book keeping problem. Still, its good to know the commonly accepted rule.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[dkilgo]

IMC I treat the increased magical intelligence as the base for determining what skill points you earn the next level.

 

[kreynolds]

IMC I treat the increased magical intelligence as the base for determining what skill points you earn the next level.

That's a good thing, because as Pax said, its the correct method.

I had interpreted this wrong for the longest time though.