D&D 4E Conan vs the Swarms of Soldiers.

[Garthanos]

I find minion scenarios important because it has some genre backing that I have liked since yea old sword and sorcery days of old. It has been nodded at by D&D in the past, but I think in 4e it started to finally be embraced as a longer term feature.

Fighters actually do not have it bad dealing with minion scenarios they start out at least potentially alright and do get better ... turning to look at a Paladin blinks and gulps.

 

[Garthanos]

A martial controller could do with more such, of course.

While everything may not be directly about martial controller... it does overlap a lot more than people think.

 

[Garthanos]

OK now At level 3 the Paladin has an encounter power which becomes available called Strength from Valor AND which would be serious bad assery in a minion heavy fight generating a ton of temp hit points and taking down the hoards
.... and at level 5, Fiery smite as a Daily becomes a large scale green flame blade...

The classes at-wills do seem to suck wrt minions more than a little.

 

[Garthanos]

I think it is notable "when" an ability comes into the pervue of characters of a given role/class ... is it because of missing powers? or is it because low level characters of such and such role shouldnt be able to do this? Or some combo.

Maybe the ability is intended to be a forte of a particular class, alah the barbarian or swordmage and minion trashing. Or even an intended deficiency of another class? Though the latter seems kind of meh.

 

[Garthanos]

Using One Against The Other

A zorro style rogue can start out fairly strong in minion scenario at level 1 there are 2 tempting dailies... Duelist's Prowess and the nerfed but still useful Blinding Barrage and as they advance though they have immediate interupts and reactions... that come in handy.

Would this be over powered... The flavor seems like a good rogue one.

"Using one against the other"
An enemies weapon becomes your own if but for a moment as you attack one enemy and turn their disrupted flailing to your advantage.

At Will level 1
Attack: Dex vs AC
Requirement your off hand must be free.
Hit: 1[W] + Dex damage to target you may make secondary attack against adjacent target
Secondary Attack : Dex vs Ref
Hit: damage as though from a basic attack by the original target.

Perhaps??
Special if you have combat advantage sneak attack damage may be applied against either enemy (or maybe both or ... but not both.)

 

[darkbard]

Secondary Attack: Dex vs Ref
Hit: damage as though from a basic attack by the original target.

Targeting REF seems overpowered to me; in a way, that's combining a Paragon tier feat with a multitarget version of Twin Strike. How about keeping it to AC and have the damage be (rogue's) DEX modifier to secondary target?

 

[Garthanos]

Targeting REF seems overpowered to me; in a way, that's combining a Paragon tier feat with a multitarget version of Twin Strike. How about keeping it to AC and have the damage be (rogue's) DEX modifier to secondary target?

It isnt twin strike... twin strike always gets two attacks which is generally much better by the numbers
this secondary attack only occurs if you succeed on the first one and may itself miss.

The barbarians Whirling Strike has a cleave like effect where the secondary enemy gets damage but it doesnt require an attack roll however one gets [W] offhand damage with some extra bonus Dex damage if the Barbarian is doing his raging.

 

[darkbard]

No, I know it's not quite Twin Strike for the reason you mention. But Rogue accuracy is usually much greater (like +2) than either the Ranger or Fighter, and so that second attack has a pretty reasonable chance of going off.

Why not model it on Cleave or Whirling Strike, then? Perhaps have it be auto DEX damage, no roll. (Again, Rogue stat damage is usually higher (+1) than either Fighter or Barbarian.

 

[Garthanos]

Modelled after cleave it would be serious weak sauce for a striker.(wouldnt it?)

Whirling Rend is the barbarian attack I was looking at... I just made the second an attack so it required a to hit roll and made it using the basic attack ability of the enemy instead of an off hand weapon.

 

[Garthanos]

I can see it counting as an attack might mean it interacts with feats or perhaps another power differently however.