D&D 4E Conan vs the Swarms of Soldiers.

[Garthanos]

Using one against the other II

How about this

"Using one against the other"
An enemies weapon becomes your own if but for a moment as you attack one enemy and turn their disrupted flailing to your advantage.

At Will level 1
Attack: Dex vs AC
Requirement your off hand must be free.
Hit: 1[W] damage to target and you deliver damage to an adjacent enemy as though from from a basic attack by the original target.

If you have combat advantage against both you choose which 1 enemy your sneak attack damage applies to.

At level 21: hit becomes 2[W] and add DEX or CHA to the damage to adjacent enemy.

 

[Garthanos]

I suspect the second "attack" or damage might always be a potential surprise for instance we are not always talking human minions.

If you disrupted the Mordant hydra by slashing its head and made it spit acid on that nearby Bog Hag (or whatever they team up with). Its not a huge scarey amount of damage for level 18 -> d8 +6.

 

[Garthanos]

hmm went back and compared to other rogue at-wills... Riposte strike is one of my favorites in general.
Balance wise this is a bit like saying splitting that effect to two additional enemies (you require two enemies for this to actually be valuable so that is a conditional value) and for this case will happen "right away" instead of giving the enemy a choice of not sparking the riposte.... the riposte however could introduce additional damage as it is a full on attack could have sneak attack damage bonuses (and will have that focus fire conditional value) ... now its possible the NPC will choose not to risk the riposte.

A Dual Strike from the tempest fighter would allow 2 attacks both [W] every time but using that offhand weapon the tempest fighter has some bonus damage

So I reduced the damage of the initial attack to only [W] ... which I think makes even more sense which with minions obviously won't matter and keeps the fiction of the secondary damage being based on the subject attacked. Making the damage based on the Rogue Dex or Charisma (for that tricksiness factor) might make its own sense but to me lacks a Fun factor.

 

[Garthanos]

No, I know it's not quite Twin Strike for the reason you mention

Thanks for helping me look at this, I love the flavor of this.

 

[Garthanos]

Hmm dual strike is better than I thought it was for the fighter with it not being a striker ... havent seen a Tempest fighter in play.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Hmm dual strike is better than I thought it was for the fighter with it not being a striker ... havent seen a Tempest fighter in play.

I played a brawling fighter who used a few tempest-intended powers, using a unarmed strike as the off-hand - dual strike was useful to mark two enemies at once without having to just out a limited use power or action point...

 

[Garthanos]

I played a brawling fighter who used a few tempest-intended powers, using a unarmed strike as the off-hand - dual strike was useful to mark two enemies at once without having to just out a limited use power or action point...

An attack which was grabby could be a component of the Use one against the other flavoring.... it works as a brawling fighter power too, I have used its flavor for a cleave before actually. I keep wondering about that idea of having a single by power source list of powers. And use class features to differentiate roles and styles.

 

[Tony Vargas]

An attack which was grabby could be a component of the Use one against the other flavoring.... it works as a brawling fighter power too, I have used its flavor for a cleave before actually. I keep wondering about that idea of having a single by power source list of powers. And use class features to differentiate roles and styles.

For an actual game, it'd be a more elegant design, more concepts covered, more meaningful choices, less bloat.

 

[Garthanos]

For an actual game, it'd be a more elegant design, more concepts covered, more meaningful choices, less bloat.

Didn't 5e sort of do that? except since it didnt keep martial powers within a common economy it hardly matters.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Didn't 5e sort of do that? except since it didnt keep martial powers within a common economy it hardly matters.

With spells, to a degree - most spells are used by two or more classes, with the wizard having the most unique spells, at 33, and the Sorcerer, at the other extreme, using only shared spells.

The only analogues to martial powers are class features, and closest, maneuvers, is limited to a single sub-class.