Concept Help - Duelist

[Khaalis]

The Duelist

I'm looking to get a few ideas and opinions on this concept. For in depth detail on the archetype I am referring to see the Duelist and Fencer links in my sig.

In brief, the "Duelist" concept is the classic light or no armored swashbuckling, fencer, musketeer, Inigo Montoya, Errol Flynn archetype. Currently in 5E thematically and mechanically is a mix of Fighter, Rogue and Monk/Barbarian (unarmored defense, special movement). However, as of yet, I have not been able to narrow it down to a single subclass of any one of those classes. To boot it has various "archetypes" or paths the concept could follow.

Thus my first question is should this be a new alternate "Light Fighter" class? Or should it be a series of "subclasses" attempting to fit the concept to multiple classes? Or dies this really fit under the Battle Master and just needs a Feat that gives the fighter "Unarmored Defense"?

Thoughts?

 

[RhaezDaevan]

I don't see any reason why all classes that have heavy armor proficiency not be able to trade it in for a type of unarmored defense ability. It wouldn't even have to be the same as a monk or barbarian.

Maybe AC = 10 + Dex + Int for a duelist. Take battlemaster with this change and you get a pretty nice duelist fighter.

 

[Paraxis]

I don't see any reason why all classes that have heavy armor proficiency not be able to trade it in for a type of unarmored defense ability. It wouldn't even have to be the same as a monk or barbarian.

Maybe AC = 10 + Dex + Int for a duelist. Take battlemaster with this change and you get a pretty nice duelist fighter.

+1 I like this idea.

If I wanted to do an unarmored duelist just using the rules we have I would do warlock/rogue the mage armor all the time invocation and the two attacks with a pact blade are nice.

 

[Khaalis]

I agree that the duelist would use DEX+INT for its version of Unarmored Defense. However, I'm not certain how you would get this across to others, other than as a "House Rule" or possibly a Class Feature Variant? I'm trying to find a way to do it to get the most general acceptance. Considering that Unarmored Defense is a full class ability, I don't see too many people accepting dropping it on top of the Battle master "as is". Though with that said you could say that Duelist is a Battle Master as written with the following change.

Duelist's Defense
Beginning at 3rd level when you take this archetype, you loose Medium and Heavy armor proficiencies and instead gain the following benefit instead. When not wearing any armor, your AC = 10+DEX+INT. You can use a buckler shield and still gain this benefit.

New Item: Buckler Shield 5gp / +1 AC / 2 lb.
This small metal shield is wielded in the off-hand as a parrying shield. It may also be used as an off-hand weapon with Proficiency if you have both Shield and Martial Weapon proficiency. As a weapon it has the following stats: 1d4 bludgeoning / Finesse, Light.

 

[Khaalis]

DUELIST (v0.2) (Fighter Archetype)

Duelist's Defense
Beginning at 3rd level when you take this archetype, you loose Medium and Heavy armor proficiencies and gain the following benefit instead. When not wearing any armor and not wielding a two-handed weapon, your Armor Class equals 10+ your Dexterity modifier + you Intelligence modifier. You can use a buckler shield and still gain this benefit.

Combat Superiority
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, ...
As per Fighter - Battle Master (p73 PHB).

Know Your Enemy
Starting at 7th level, ...
As per Fighter - Battle Master (p73 PHB).

Improved Combat Superiority
Starting at 10th level, ...
As per Fighter - Battle Master (p74 PHB).

Relentless
Starting at 15th level, ...
As per Fighter - Battle Master (p74 PHB).


MANEUVERS
Duelists are more highly trained in one-on-one melee combat than other fighter. The following maneuvers reflect their unique fighting style.
As Battle Master maneuvers (p74 PHB) except remove:
--- Commender's Strike
--- Distracting Strike
--- Maneuvering Attack
--- Rally
Add the following:
* Plunging Strike. When you hit a creature with a melee attack, you can expend one superiority die. You add the superiority die to the attack's damage roll, and the target must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, add the superiority die to the attack's damage roll again.
* Jibing Insult. When you hit a creature with a melee attack and a cutting jibe, you can expend one superiority die to distract the creature, giving you an opening. You add the superiority die to the attack's damage roll. The next attack roll you make against the target has advantage if the attack is made before the end of your next turn.
* Stunning Strike. When you hit a creature with a melee attack, you can expend one superiority die. You add the superiority die to the attack's damage roll, and the target must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, it is stunned until the end of your next turn.


APPENDIX
New Armor / Weapon: Buckler Shield 5gp / +1 AC / 2 lb.

This small metal shield is wielded in the off-hand as a parrying shield. It may also be used as an off-hand weapon with Proficiency if you have both Shield and Martial Weapon proficiency. As a weapon it has the following stats: 1d4 bludgeoning / Finesse, Light.

 

[BigVanVader]

I fully endorse your desire to create a Zorro class.

The whole thing about Errol Flynn, is that he's all over the place when he fights. He isn't just swordfighting you, he's running around, he's jumping up stairs, he's cutting down chandeliers, he's zigzagging through hordes of enemies and generally using his mobility. Not just in general, but specifically in a fight. Maybe give him class abilities that basically make him ignore attacks of opportunity, or ignore 'threatened squares' and all that business a number of times per encounter?

Maybe also give him a bonus to using the environment to his advantage? Although I imagine that would require lots of cooperation with the DM, it would also rely on what's around. Can't exactly cut down any chandeliers in the North Pole.

 

[Khaalis]

I fully endorse your desire to create a Zorro class.

The whole thing about Errol Flynn, is that he's all over the place when he fights. He isn't just swordfighting you, he's running around, he's jumping up stairs, he's cutting down chandeliers, he's zigzagging through hordes of enemies and generally using his mobility. Not just in general, but specifically in a fight. Maybe give him class abilities that basically make him ignore attacks of opportunity, or ignore 'threatened squares' and all that business a number of times per encounter?

Maybe also give him a bonus to using the environment to his advantage? Although I imagine that would require lots of cooperation with the DM, it would also rely on what's around. Can't exactly cut down any chandeliers in the North Pole.

Maybe I need to split the concepts. This is one of the reasons I pondered a new base class with different subclasses. The Zorro/Flynn concept of swinging from chandeliers, etc. is more the Rogue shtick, so perhaps a Swashbuckler archetype for Rogue and Duelist for Fighter?.

 

[Quartz]

You could just make it a feat: Unarmoured Defence - add your proficiency bonus to your AC if you are not wearing armour. This does not stack with the class ability.

Note that at high levels, this is strictly better than the class ability

But really, if you're running that sort of campaign, all the combat classes should something akin to Unarmoured Defence for free.

 

[jadrax]

You could just make it a feat: Unarmoured Defence - add your proficiency bonus to your AC if you are not wearing armour. This does not stack with the class ability.

Note that at high levels, this is strictly better than the class ability

It is much, much better. The limiting factor of Unarmored Defense is that to get a decent AC out of it you have to have a very good score in two Abilities.

 

[BigVanVader]

Maybe I need to split the concepts. This is one of the reasons I pondered a new base class with different subclasses. The Zorro/Flynn concept of swinging from chandeliers, etc. is more the Rogue shtick, so perhaps a Swashbuckler archetype for Rogue and Duelist for Fighter?.

Over on the Pathfinder forums, some guys discovered that if you tweak the Gunslinger class, it actually makes a very nice Swashbuckler.

Personally, I always pictured a Rogue/Bard combination as working rather well. That dashing smile as you're suckerpunching the guys guarding the princess, y'know?