Concerning Feats

[Edena_of_Neith]

I always felt, personally, that characters needed about 3 times as many feats, minimum, as the rules allowed them. Just my opinion, of course.

Got a question for you.
Let's say the players come to you, the DM. They have just obtained enough experience points to level (say, from 1st to 2nd level.) They offer to trade in that level and the experience earned, for feats.
How many feats is a level worth ... assuming you are going to say yes to this? 3? 4? 5? 1? 2? (Of course, any normal feats would still be earned as well ... these feats are strictly on top of those.)

 

[Jack Simth]

I always felt, personally, that characters needed about 3 times as many feats, minimum, as the rules allowed them. Just my opinion, of course.

Got a question for you.
Let's say the players come to you, the DM. They have just obtained enough experience points to level (say, from 1st to 2nd level.) They offer to trade in that level and the experience earned, for feats.
How many feats is a level worth ... assuming you are going to say yes to this? 3? 4? 5? 1? 2? (Of course, any normal feats would still be earned as well ... these feats are strictly on top of those.)

Are we talking "level adjustment" trade in, or are we talking "one-time expenditure of 1,000 xp" trade in?

 

[jdrakeh]

Are we talking "level adjustment" trade in, or are we talking "one-time expenditure of 1,000 xp" trade in?

If I understand correctly, the latter -- basically, a character is giving up a level advancement for feat picks.

 

[Vedic Wizard]

I always felt, personally, that characters needed about 3 times as many feats, minimum, as the rules allowed them. Just my opinion, of course.

I agree, and we've thought about some kind of XP buying system for feats in our game. The problem is that not going up a level, while it hinders the character slightly, means they earn more XP for the same encounter than the rest of the party who've leveled up normally. So they earn the XP back relatively quickly, and have extra feats. Would be intereted to hear if anyone has a way of solving this problem.

 

[Wujin]

Why don't you try the Epic 6 solution?

Just let the player use 5000 PX to buy a single feat for which he qualifies...

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Are we talking "level adjustment" trade in, or are we talking "one-time expenditure of 1,000 xp" trade in?

Level Adjustment Trade In (the whole party has to agree to it. It can't be just one character.)
Once it's in, it's in for good for that campaign.

Thus you have Slow Advancement. It takes twice as much experience to level, from then on. But, you gain that extra 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 feats per level (again, the question being, how many feats are worth such a massive sacrifice?)

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

I agree, and we've thought about some kind of XP buying system for feats in our game. The problem is that not going up a level, while it hinders the character slightly, means they earn more XP for the same encounter than the rest of the party who've leveled up normally. So they earn the XP back relatively quickly, and have extra feats. Would be intereted to hear if anyone has a way of solving this problem.

That's why I thought it had to be everyone or nobody. The group has to agree to this.
Otherwise, we end up with a situation where one or two characters are 1st level (but with a lot of extra feats), and everyone else is 5th level, and it creates a viability problem for the group.

The reason I proposed this approach is that it follows the rule of 'Nothing is Free.'
We know how hard it can be for 1st level characters (or any low level characters, maybe) to survive. Now, they must survive for twice as long on short rations, as it were, in exchange for those extra feats. Nothing is free - if you want the extra feats you advance more slowly.

But I do not really know how many feats a level would be worth.
My best guess is 2 to 3, assuming everything else in 3E is the same.

I would think that players who really enjoy playing at low levels, and who do not want to get to high level and retire anytime soon, would relish such a system, since it prolongs low level play but empowers it simultaneously.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Why don't you try the Epic 6 solution?

Just let the player use 5000 PX to buy a single feat for which he qualifies...

What is/are PX?
What is the Epic 6 solution?

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

I suppose the group could opt on Very Slow Advancement, sacrificing leveling twice, and gaining extra feats twice.
Thus, it would take three times as much experience to level, but the characters would gain 4 to 6 (if you go with 2 to 3 per level sacrificed) feats each level.

I would think that this would be a harrowing game. It's one thing to tough it out through 1st level, quite another to tough it out through 3 1st levels.

I suppose a really determined group could do it ... but again, they would all have to agree beforehand, and the 3x rule would remain in effect from then on (they had better choose those extra feats wisely ... they're going to need them.)

Again though ... how many feats do you think a level should be worth? I'm putting it at between 2 and 3. What do you think?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Epic 6 is a game system where after level 6, the PCs stop advancing, and instead gain a feat every so much xp, usually 5000. You can do it at other levels, like E8, the creator just thought 6 was best, as every class is at their most equal and there's no instant death, teleport, etc... spells in the picture yet to complicate things. He also made special feats to let classes gain a class feature they would have gotten in a few levels normally, or to gain a single 4th level spell asa once/day ritual.

The thread is called E6: The game inside the game, and is kicking around the general forum. You could probably search for it on google.