D&D 5E Confused about 1/3 spellcasters multiclassing

[dragonkin08]

I have read a couple different conflicting answers on what happens if something like an arcane trickster multiclasses with one level of wizard. As far as I understand it, the arcane trickster would be 1 level ahead on spell slots. One post I read said that they would have access to level to level 5 spell slots by level 17. Another said that they do not follow that table in chapter 6 and instead round casting levels up. I would appreciate it if someone could clear this up for me. Thanks

 

[MerricB]

I have read a couple different conflicting answers on what happens if something like an arcane trickster multiclasses with one level of wizard. As far as I understand it, the arcane trickster would be 1 level ahead on spell slots. One post I read said that they would have access to level to level 5 spell slots by level 17. Another said that they do not follow that table in chapter 6 and instead round casting levels up. I would appreciate it if someone could clear this up for me. Thanks

The spell slots a multi-class spellcaster has are determined from the table in Chapter 6. The *level* they count as is more interesting. Bard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer & Wizard count full, Paladin and Ranger count half, Fighter (Eldritch Knight) and Rogue (Arcane Trickster) count third - all rounded down per standard rules.

So a Wizard 1/Fighter (Arcane Trickster) 3 uses the level 2 line from the Multiclass spellcaster table and has two level 1 spells.
A Wizard 1/Fighter (Arcane Trickster) 18 uses the level 7 line from the table: (4 1st, 3 2nd, 3 3rd, 1 4th).

They *prepare* or *know* a number of spells as given in their class descriptions, and they can prepare spells no higher than what is available on their class's table.

Cheers!

 

[CapnZapp]

I have read a couple different conflicting answers on what happens if something like an arcane trickster multiclasses with one level of wizard. As far as I understand it, the arcane trickster would be 1 level ahead on spell slots. One post I read said that they would have access to level to level 5 spell slots by level 17. Another said that they do not follow that table in chapter 6 and instead round casting levels up. I would appreciate it if someone could clear this up for me. Thanks

A level 13 Arcane Trickster has access to 1st, 2nd and 3rd level spells and slots. He just learned third level spells. To reach level four spells, he must take another six levels of Arcane Trickster (per the table on page 98 Tricksters get 4th level spells at level 19).

What happens if he instead begins levelling as Wizard?

The first level of Wizard (now we're a level 14 character; 13 trickster/1 wizard) makes me a multiclass spellcaster of level 13/3+1=5. This is just enough to let us keep our third level spell slots.

But if we continue levelling as Wizard, with our third level of Wizard we finally gain 4th level spell slots as a level 7 multiclass spellcaster. At this time we are a level 16 character (13 trickster/3 wizard).

We are a level 7 multiclass spellcaster because our 13 trickster levels count as 13/3=4 levels, and our 3 wizard levels count as 3 levels. 4+3=7.

We are still a 16th level character. We still have 13 levels of Rogue (Arcane Trickster) and 3 levels of Wizard.

We still know spells like that 13th level Trickster and level 3 Wizard. This means we know first, second and third level spells as a Trickster. We also get to choose first and second level spells as a wizard.

But we have fourth level spell slots. Even though we have no actual level 4 spells to cast.

We can still use our level 4 slots to cast the spells we know as higher-levelled spells. Many spells do more damage or have other bigger effects when cast using higher-levelled slots.

In the end, by multiclassing, we reached 4th level slots sooner, but we did not get any level 4 spells to go with them. Our level 4 slots are still useful, only not as useful. We can still treat them as extra powerful third level slots.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

The spell slots a multi-class spellcaster has are determined from the table in Chapter 6. The *level* they count as is more interesting. Bard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer & Wizard count full, Paladin and Ranger count half, Fighter (Eldritch Knight) and Rogue (Arcane Trickster) count third - all rounded down per standard rules.

Rounding down has the interesting consequence that you can actually lose spells as you go up in levels. For example, a 4th level Eldritch Knight has the slots of a 2nd level caster: 3 1st level slots per day. But if he multiclasses to Paladin at 5th level, he'll count as a 4/3 => 1st level caster from Eldritch Knight, and a 1/2 => 0th level caster from Paladin, therefore he is a 1st level caster with only 2 spell slots per day.

The reason is because the 1/3 caster spell tables round up, not down, but the official multiclassing rules tell you to round down. Either you live with this paradox as one of the downsides of multiclassing, or else you houserule it to be more sensible and round 1/3 casters up. Then the EK 4/Paladin 1 would keep his three 1st level slots.

 

[Arial Black]

I don't believe you count any classes that don't cast spells yet. So 1st level paladins and rangers, and 1st and 2nd level eldritch knights and arcane tricksters, cannot cast spells and therefore do not contribute to the calculation.

Eldritch knight 4/paladin 1 would simply use the eldritch knight table, because the paladin 1 is not a spellcasting class (yet).

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I don't believe you count any classes that don't cast spells yet. So 1st level paladins and rangers, and 1st and 2nd level eldritch knights and arcane tricksters, cannot cast spells and therefore do not contribute to the calculation.

Eldritch knight 4/paladin 1 would simply use the eldritch knight table, because the paladin 1 is not a spellcasting class (yet).

That's an interesting interpretation. It does still leave you in the position of an Eldritch Knight/Arcane Trickster 5 having exactly the same spell slots as an Eldritch Knight 5: only three 1st level slots at level 10.

 

[CapnZapp]

That's an interesting interpretation. It does still leave you in the position of an Eldritch Knight/Arcane Trickster 5 having exactly the same spell slots as an Eldritch Knight 5: only three 1st level slots at level 10.

But since this doesn't actually lose you anything, it isn't a problem, right?

Meaning: losing abilities as you level up doesn't feel like the D&D way. Not gaining something from taking a certain level is not nearly the same, and can be solved simply by telling the player "if you don't like it, don't make that choice".

Meaning I'm okay expecting a player to suck it up in regards to not advancing his abilities. I'm not okay expecting a player to accept actually losing his abilities.

That difference right there is a major one, in my view.

 

[ExploderWizard]

I don't believe you count any classes that don't cast spells yet. So 1st level paladins and rangers, and 1st and 2nd level eldritch knights and arcane tricksters, cannot cast spells and therefore do not contribute to the calculation.

Eldritch knight 4/paladin 1 would simply use the eldritch knight table, because the paladin 1 is not a spellcasting class (yet).

This is technically true. A 1st or 2nd level fighter is not an eldritch knight yet, but a 1st level paladin is still a paladin and a 1st level ranger is still a ranger. Much like the fighter, a 2nd level rogue is not an arcane trickster. All very amusing.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I just had this go around with the eldritch knight in my Tuesday game the last two weeks. He insists he looses spell level by taking wizard, but I don't see it.

He has 12 fighter (eldritch knight) levels, 2 Paladin levels... so right now he is 5th level on the multi class chart, I told him every level of wizard adds to that.


I played around in a throw away high level game as a Rogue (arcane trick) 6, Fighter (eldritch knight) 6, Bard 6, Ranger 2... it was lots of fun having all that combat ability (only the straight 20 fighter was better) and still having 6th level spell slots

 

[CapnZapp]

You don't see it if you already consider yourself a multiclass spellcaster.

You see it only when you have an unfavorable number of levels in a divide by three class, say 5. As long as you stay a singleclassed spellcaster everything's fine since each such individual class rounds you up (5/3=2).

...and from that choose a level in another not-full spellcaster class, turning yourself into a multiclass spellcaster. Now your levels are rounded down, which despite the addition, can result in a lower total: (5/3)+(1/3) being calculated as (1)+(0) equals one.

And since your new total of one (1) is less than your previous total of two (2), you are losing in spellcasting ability.

That's the theory, anyhow.