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3E/3.5 Confused with ranger manyshoot feat [3.5]

JahellTheBard

First Post
I'm not sure to understand the new feat manyshoots for the ranger, so I will apreciate any help.

Let's make an example.

One of my players has a 8 lev. Ranger, with 18 dex. and skill focus lonbow. No magical or masterwork weapon.

He should usually have two attack each round, at 13( 8Bab+4dex+1 weapon focus) /8.

With rapid-fire ( 2 lev. in 3.5 ed.) he could use the same attack or decide to shoot two arrows instead of the first, and get -2 on all shoots, so :

+11/+11/+6

If he use manyshoots ( at level 6) he can decide to shoot 2 arrows instead of 1, with -4 malus, but how many times? Does it stack with rapid fire?

Can he get as much as 6 arrows / round like this, or I am missing something?

+7/+7/+7/+7/+2/+2 ?


Thanks for your help!

Or :confused:
 

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cerberus2112

First Post
Using Multishot, he gets only a SINGLE attack. If he hits, he hits with all the arrows he shot. Of course, its not a full round action, so he can move and do this, which makes it a pretty good deal. It doesn't combine with Rapid Shot, or iterative attacks from a high Base Attack Bonus, or haste, or anything else for that matter. Multishot gives what it says in the description, and that's all you get.
 




Taren Seeker

First Post
Darklone said:


Both arrows at full damage? Argh.

well, it's either 2 attacks at +13/+8 or 2 at +9. Depending on the situation, you could prefer the full attack option. I used to think it was crazy, but with the arrow stacking nerf, I'm thinking that Manyshot is OK now.

Full attack: +13/+8
w/ Rapid: +11/+11/+6

Standard action Manyshot: +9/+9, + a move.

Not to mention that you only get 1 roll to do damage on both arrows...for difficult shots you may not want to do that.

Looks ok. I'll be trying it out.
 


Taren Seeker

First Post
(Psi)SeveredHead said:
What if the ranger in question were 11th-level? This feat confuses me too.

With the same modifiers:

Full attack action: +16/+11/+6
rapid: +14/+14/+9/+4

Manyshot: +12/+12/+10 & a move

16th lvl:

+21/+16/+11/+6
Rapid: +19/+19/+14/+9/+4

Manyshot: +17/+17/+15/+13

Hmmm.
Doesn't look quite so balanced now, does it? Having the extra -2 apply to all attacks would make it better, but my reading of the feat doesn't support that. It's still an all or nothing type attack so against high Ac's you'd probably want to stay with the FAA, and if you are a decent critter (like a Deep Desert Sniper) then you'd want more chances to crit.

EDIT: Added 16th lvl progression and some analysis.
 
Last edited:

Taren Seeker said:


Hmmm.
Doesn't look quite so balanced now, does it? Having the extra -2 apply to all attacks would make it better, but my reading of the feat doesn't support that. It's still an all or nothing type attack so against high Ac's you'd probably want to stay with the FAA, and if you are a decent critter (like a Deep Desert Sniper) then you'd want more chances to crit.

The -2 penalty does apply to all the attacks -- because there's only one attack roll! It's not +17/+17/+15/+13, it's four arrows at +13 -- they either all hit, or all miss.

It's not really a particularly useful feat (compared to Rapid Shot)except perhaps in conjunction with Shot on the Run, or when surprised.
 

Taren Seeker

First Post
Olgar Shiverstone said:


The -2 penalty does apply to all the attacks -- because there's only one attack roll! It's not +17/+17/+15/+13, it's four arrows at +13 -- they either all hit, or all miss.

It's not really a particularly useful feat (compared to Rapid Shot)except perhaps in conjunction with Shot on the Run, or when surprised.

"However, each arrow after the second
adds a cumulative -2 penalty on the attack roll (for a total of -6 on the third arrow and -8 on the fourth)"

Agreed, the part in bold is what threw me.

So at 16th level with more appropriate gear you could get 4 shots at...call it:
16 (BAB) +7 (24 dex) +4 (GMW on bow) +1 (focus) +1 (PBS) +2 (Greater Bracers of Archery) =+31

So Rapid: +29/+29/+25/+19/+14
Manyshot: +23/+23/+23/+23

Hmmm, rates better than a not useful feat IMO. Really nasty if you're flying or somesuch and can really make use of the mobility. You're right, Shot on the run is a natural combo.
 

Yep -- but again, one die roll, all or nothing, and if you have precision based damage and the like, it only applies to one arrow.

Plus it only works within 30'.

So while it allows the archer to be more effective when he can move (or has to move), at the range it's effective he's likely to get charged & meleed pretty soon (barring Shot on the Run, of course).

It's not useless, but it's not an overpowered feat, either, which is a good thing IMO.
 

coyote6

Adventurer
Olgar Shiverstone said:
Yep -- but again, one die roll, all or nothing, and if you have precision based damage and the like, it only applies to one arrow.

Favored Enemy bonus damage isn't precision based any more, right? Nor is Weapon Specialization? Leaving Sneak Attack damage (and similar abilities, like the duelist's bonus damage) as the only precision-based damage.

Olgar Shiverstone said:
Plus it only works within 30'.

Interesting; they apparently got rid of the 30' limit on a lot of stuff (FE, WS, etc.) -- I wonder if keeping it for Manyshot was intentional, or if they just overlooked it.
 

Plane Sailing

Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
Manyshot does specify that only the first arrow can critical hit should the attack be a critical

Thus if you did a 3 arrow manyshot, and got a critical, you would roll your damage a total of 5 times (three for the critical first arrow and 1 for each of the other arrows).

cheers
 

CrimsonTemplar

First Post
True Strike and Manyshot

Since you roll once for each arrow you fire as part of a Manyshot attack you stand a much better chance of doing a good bit of damage to a high AC target using a Bow of True Arrows (or the True Strike spell). True Strike grants a +20 to hit on your next attack roll and Manyshot is only one attack roll for multiple (up to 4) arrows.

It's almost a shame I'm not going to go the archery feat route with my ranger in LG, that could be fun to try out. Still, the TWF path is more in line with the character concept (curly black haired ranger guy in the 13th Warrior).
 


Darklone

Registered User
Re: True Strike and Manyshot

CrimsonTemplar said:
It's almost a shame I'm not going to go the archery feat route with my ranger in LG, that could be fun to try out. Still, the TWF path is more in line with the character concept (curly black haired ranger guy in the 13th Warrior).

Now that's interesting... you picture him as a ranger??? I mean, in the movie...

PBS is precision based damage too.
 



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