Contests - I don't like

[LostSoul]

DC 10 + Ability Modifier sounds a lot like a Saving Throw. I don't think it's explicitly spelled out that way, though.

I think the rules are unclear as to when a Saving Throw is called for vs. a Contest.

 

[Blackwarder]

Having them all roll seems silly to me. If they are on guard together I would treat them as assisting each other if they're actually doing what they're supposed to do. One check with advantage, since advantage can't stack they essentially get two checks and done. However if all the guards are chatting it up and gambling and generally distracting one check with disadvantage. Makes perfect sense to me and seems completely in the realm of the rules as presented so far.



Two rolls yeild up more information to play with IMHO, did you win by overpowering the orc's strong defenses (both roll well), or did you slip through because he moved the wrong way (both roll poor), et c.

Need to spread xp around but that's exactly what I was about to write.

Warder

 

[LostSoul]

A character tries to wrestle free from a orc's grapple. Rather than opposed strength roll, the player makes a strength roll against 10 + the strength of the orc. He fails. the orc then tries to flip the character on the ground to bash him for some damage. Orc roll strength against the character's strength +10.

Expanding on my post above...

I think this would be a Saving Throw - it's not explicit, but the last bullet point under "Saving Throws" and the paragraph following that point me in that direction. There aren't any rules defining what the DC of a Saving Throw is; going with the playtest document I think you'd assign a DC normally, that is, using the guidelines under "Assign a DC". Spells seem to be an exception to this general rule. Then again, that is the only place where they define how to set Saving Throw DCs...

Having them all roll seems silly to me.

Me too, but check out the third paragraph under "Stealth" in How To Play.

 

[Blackbrrd]

Let's take your example of the kobolds hiding on the cliff face. I would probably look at where they were located in relation to where the hobbit is sneaking and let the kobolds get maybe 3-4 rolls.

To me, it sounds logical that sneaking past several creatures are harder to sneak by than a single creature. At the same time, it should be easier for the hobbit to notice the hiding kobolds because there are so many of them.

So, the encounter might go like this:
Hobbit-player: I want to sneak up on that cave, but I will keep my eyes open for dangers.
DM: Roll perception (rolls hide for the kobolds)
DM: Yeah, you spot 3 kobolds up on the cliff
Hobbit-player: Sounds scary, I wait a bit to see if there are more
DM: 10 minutes pass, roll again with advantage. (rolls hide for the kobolds)
DM: yeah, you spot 4 more kobolds.
Hobbit-player: is there any way to the cave mouth that avoids the sight path of most of the kobolds?
DM: yeah, there looks to be one
Hobbit-player: ok, trying to sneak up now
DM: roll stealth once with advantage and once without. (rolls for 2 of the seen kobolds and 1 of the still hidden ones).
....

So, here we got to reward the player for some patience and clever thinking, working around the problem of multiple foes. Just using a passive DC set by the creatures skill bonus +10 doesn't accomplish the same thing.

 

[Sadrik]

I've come to dislike passive skills. I think they can work for monsters and NPCs as in the situation the OP describes, acting essentially as a DC for the rogue's Stealth check to beat, but I hate them on PCs because I constantly get my players saying "18 Passive Perception, are there secret doors?" or "21 Passive Insight, is he lying?" I think players (mine at least) tend to see them as the "I deserve things for free" rule. In addition, especially if you start allowing Passive Perception to spot traps/other secrets, you get a weird game where you as the DM have to either set the Perception DCs so low that everything automatically gets found by your highest-Perception PC, or so high that only that PC stands a chance of finding things. I'd rather be able to set DCs such that every player has some chance of succeeding and some chance of failing, and the best PCs just have a better chance. And in fact, that's what the randomness of Contests allows for-- the player with the highest Perception, Stealth, etc. won't necessarily be the one who succeeds every time, and the other PCs won't always fail.

Note that passive skills are a part of 5e in an oblique way. If the DC +5 is equal to or greater than the ability score you do it automatically. This could potentially allow the rogue to auto sneak past the kobolds without a roll. So if the wisest kobold had a +2 it would be DC 12, if the halfling had a 17 DEX it would be automatic success. Perhaps advantage instead of auto success...

I certainly do not like 8 contested rolls and that should not be a part of the game.

I do also think that someone sneaking up on someone should get a perception (wisdom) save to avoid becoming surprised by them. DC could be based on 10 + stealth score of the sneaker...

 

[KesselZero]

Note that passive skills are a part of 5e in an oblique way. If the DC +5 is equal to or greater than the ability score you do it automatically. This could potentially allow the rogue to auto sneak past the kobolds without a roll.

True, and I'm concerned about that mechanism for all the same reasons. Ditto the rogue's "can't roll under a 10" power.