Converting Creatures from Other Campaign Settings

freyar · Oct 7, 2022

Monstrous Humanoid for the gladiator lizards, I guess. If you want to stat up egg guy, I could see a Native Outsider. I still think he's a different species. Does that work for you?

Cleon · Oct 8, 2022

freyar said:
Monstrous Humanoid for the gladiator lizards, I guess. If you want to stat up egg guy, I could see a Native Outsider.

I'd go for Native Outsider myself.

It's a shame Enworld no longer has a Dice Roller or we could have a dodecahedron-off to decide the issue.

As mentioned earlier, Egg Guy doesn't need a complete writeup if we treat him/it as aHazard. The creature never leaves their Egg in the story.

freyar said:
I still think he's a different species. Does that work for you?

They both come from eggs in the same "nest" and the Lizards die if the nest's Egg Guy perishes. The two are obviously intimately connected.

freyar · Nov 7, 2022

Hmmmph, a dice off could perhaps be useful. I don't really like Outsider for the gladiator lizards because they don't really seem to exemplify anything.

How about a compromise? Make the lizards Monstrous Humanoid (extraplanar). Make Egg Guy a hazard of some kind, so we don't need to worry about the type. Clearly, based on the description in the story, he's summoned or magically manifested the lizards, so I think extraplanar makes sense. How's that?

Or, if we want to go really weird, we could make the gladiator lizards something like the astral figments (can't believe we did those all the way back in 2009!), so they're really generated by Egg Guy's imagination.

Cleon · Nov 7, 2022

freyar said:
Hmmmph, a dice off could perhaps be useful. I don't really like Outsider for the gladiator lizards because they don't really seem to exemplify anything.

Erm…

…they exemplify the sharp-edged stony deadliness of the Bleak Shore, while Egg Guy exemplifies its bleak and callous cruelty!

freyar said:
How about a compromise? Make the lizards Monstrous Humanoid (extraplanar). Make Egg Guy a hazard of some kind, so we don't need to worry about the type. Clearly, based on the description in the story, he's summoned or magically manifested the lizards, so I think extraplanar makes sense. How's that?

I don't think they should be Extraplanar, they appear to inhabit the Bleak Shore not some weird otherworldy realm.

I'm fine making Egg Guy a hazard. Presumably one with the CR of the pair of Gladiator Lizards "he" hatches.

Now does each Egg Guy have a pair of Lizards or can one Guy have multiple pairs? The most recent version of their stats gives them No. Appearing 2d4, which suggests up to four pairs. Does that mean some "nests" contain multiple Egg Guys?

I've tweaked the No. Appearing of the the Gladiator Lizard Working Draft and we should consider whether to include the Egg Guys in the Organization, something like:

Organization: Solitary, pair, brood (3–4) or nest (2–8 plus 1 to 4 egg guys*)

*Obviously we should call them something different from Egg Guy. Currently I favour Bleak One for their name.

freyar said:
Or, if we want to go really weird, we could make the gladiator lizards something like the astral figments (can't believe we did those all the way back in 2009!), so they're really generated by Egg Guy's imagination.

It's been a while since I last read the story, but I think the description suggests they are corporeal creatures. From what I recall the Lizards dropped dead and left corpses when the Bleak One was killed. They didn't evaporate into ectoplasm.

freyar · Dec 5, 2022

Not sure that I buy "sharp-edged stony deadliness" as the sort of philosophy or elemental essence that an Outsider is supposed to be about.

Any chance I can get you to agree to make the Bleak Ones and Gladiator Lizards separate species even if related? I still think that the destruction of the lizards when Egg Guy is killed means they're not the same species but something magically summoned or created (oooh, maybe the Lizards are Constructs!). And we know Bleak ones can project their image over long distances, so they must have mental or magical powers.

Cleon · Dec 5, 2022

freyar said:
Not sure that I buy "sharp-edged stony deadliness" as the sort of philosophy or elemental essence that an Outsider is supposed to be about.

Considering some of the Native Outsider in official WotC publications I think the Egg Guy does the job.

freyar said:
Any chance I can get you to agree to make the Bleak Ones and Gladiator Lizards separate species even if related? I still think that the destruction of the lizards when Egg Guy is killed means they're not the same species but something magically summoned or created (oooh, maybe the Lizards are Constructs!). And we know Bleak ones can project their image over long distances, so they must have mental or magical powers.

It'd be easier just leaving their relationship mysterious. Besides "species" is a rather nebulous concept in the D&D world of insane magical hybridisation.

My head-canon is Gladiator Lizards are created by Egg Guys who somehow derives nourishment from them. It's not explicit, but there has to be some reason for a Guy to geas people to sail to the Bleak Shore and be attacked by Lizards it shares a nest with.

Cleon · Dec 5, 2022

Oh, and we still need to decide on a name for the Egg Guys!

It sounds like you're OK with Bleak One, so shall we use that from now on?

freyar · Jan 11, 2023

Bleak One is ok. But I'll probably still refer to them as Egg Guys in private.

I'd be ok with having the Egg Guy (see, there I go) as a Native Outsider. But even with your head-canon, I don't think the Lizards need to be the same type. Maybe the Bleak Ones feed on psychic pain of dying sentients, and the Gladiator Lizards are just monsters they recruit to kill people. Any chance you'd go with Monstrous Humanoid for the Lizards on that basis? I'm ok with the extraplanar subtype if you want.

Cleon · Jan 11, 2023

freyar said:
Bleak One is ok. But I'll probably still refer to them as Egg Guys in private.

I'd be ok with having the Egg Guy (see, there I go) as a Native Outsider. But even with your head-canon, I don't think the Lizards need to be the same type. Maybe the Bleak Ones feed on psychic pain of dying sentients, and the Gladiator Lizards are just monsters they recruit to kill people. Any chance you'd go with Monstrous Humanoid for the Lizards on that basis? I'm ok with the extraplanar subtype if you want.

Well I think the Lizards have a more intimate relationship with the Bleak Ones than just being some monstrous version of hirelings, since they die if their linked Bleak One perishes (that's how they get dealt with in the original story. While Fafhrd keeps two gladiator lizards bust, the Mouser finds an huge and unusual egg and smashes it open to reveal a Bleak One, who promptly dies and takes his lizards with him.)

As for the Lizard's type, I'd be OK having it different from the "Egg Guy" (assuming we don't make Eggy a hazard without a type of course).

Would prefer Magical Beast over Monstrous Humanoid though, since I'd like them to have HD and BAB like a fighter (and maybe fighter bonus feats too?).

Although we can do the latter with Monstrous Humanoid by giving them a Special Ability like the Martial Training of The General. Maybe call it Natural Fighter?

Would you accept Monstrous Humanoid and a "has full BAB and bonus feats like a fighter" SA?