Converting Epic Level Creatures

[Nookie]

Insanity is spiffy go with it i say.

 

[Cleon]

Well, Cleon's SLA suggestions (including greater teleport) look pretty good to me, though we might want to limit the number of uses for the more powerful ones.

Well most of the higher-level ones in my suggestion, like discern location, don't have direct combat applications, so that seems a minor problem.

The only one I'm dubious about is disjunction, but I was thinking of dropping that anyway.

But let's deal with the basics first. First off: make it an obyrith? The thing about Form of Madness is that I'm not sure there's justification in the original monster for that, in which case we're left with a generic fiend. Still, if you both like it, who am I to party-poop?

Hmm, you know I'd rather not have it have Form of Madness, since there's nothing like that in its original incarnation.

Hmm, I was proposing we add a "reduced" version with fewer powers (like the one in the Module which has just been freed from its entrapment).

Maybe Ythog-Nthlei can assume a "non-maddening form", similar to how a Pseudonatural Creature has an alternative form of a "grotesque, tentacled mass (or another appropriately gruesome form)" except in reverse. Then the mages who trapped it underneath the Temple of Poseidon could have been bound it into its "Form of Sanity".

If it was worshipped/followed by anything even vaguely resembling humans, it would be problematic if they went mad whenever it tried to tell them to do something! Unless that's what its "Priests" are for, to pass on its orders without the insanity rider?

Or we could just not make it an Obyrith.

 

[Nookie]

Were there any demon lords in 1e or 2e that didn't have any SLA that current Incarnations do? Or even Different SLA?

 

[Cleon]

Were there any demon lords in 1e or 2e that didn't have any SLA that current Incarnations do? Or even Different SLA?

Well technically speaking they all have different SLAs in AD&D since some of the spells are different in name or small details (e.g. teleport without error instead of greater teleport).

I can't think of an AD&D Demon Lord that doesn't have any spell-like powers though.

 

[Nookie]

ahh ok i was just makeing sure that we werent barking up the wrong tree by not giving him any. Could we do an "As an Obyrith" little Blurb at the end sense he makes somewhat sense as one of those critters. That way is someone wants him to be one they can.

 

[Cleon]

ahh ok i was just makeing sure that we werent barking up the wrong tree by not giving him any. Could we do an "As an Obyrith" little Blurb at the end sense he makes somewhat sense as one of those critters. That way is someone wants him to be one they can.

Frankly, I'd rather either give him the subtype or not give him the subtype. Adding an "As an Obyrith" subentry wouldn't seem to add much.

Besides, it's the powers that are important, not the Subtype. We should be asking ourselves "Do we want Ythog-Nthlei to drive people mad who look at it or not?"

There are a couple of madness-causing objects in the adventure - glyphs on an onyx pillar in Room 20 that can turn the reader "irrevocably lawful evil" or "permanently insane", and an interdimensional portal in Room 23 in which can appear "The Eye of Zoth Ommog" that can cause a victim to "die permanently" or "succumb to a random insanity".

Zoth Ommog is an entity mentioned in both of those madness-causing objects, so it seems more likely he's the one with the insanity inflicting appearance rather than Ythog-Nthlei.

Maybe there's a clue in the titles?

The glyphs in Room 20 include the following:

“During the ninth rotation of our galactic cluster in this the 34321st year of our Master’s reign, we, the remaining children of the Great Lord Ythog-Nthlei do hereby register and sanctify this, our Holy Base. From these divine depths we shall build and grow until we have enough strength to release our Father, Zoth Ommog, from his imprisonment beyond the curtain of time.”
​

The apparition in Room 23 gives the following warning:

“We have at last imprisoned the Dark King, Ythog-Nthlei, here beneath his very base. The process cost more than we could have believed in time and lives. For over 200 years our brotherhood of magicians has struggled to prevent these sons of the old ones from releasing their horrible sires. Now only a few of us remain, but the task is complete. This image is a warning. Do not, under any circumstances, attempt to enter the chamber beyond this door. Any transgression into the area will release the King from his bondage, and will surely spell your doom.”
​

So, Ythog-Nthlei has the titles "Dark King" and "Great Lord" and his cult seeks to release "Father Zoth Ommog" from an extratemporal prison.

 

[Cleon]

ahh ok i was just makeing sure that we werent barking up the wrong tree by not giving him any. Could we do an "As an Obyrith" little Blurb at the end sense he makes somewhat sense as one of those critters. That way is someone wants him to be one they can.

One idea I had was Ythog-Nthlei was a "Great Lord" whose dominion was dark impossible secrets [The Far Realm, how to make Sentinel Golems, the evil in men's hearts (or fiends' hearts), or whatever]. That's why his "blacklight mace" radiates total darkness.

In practical terms, I was thinking we could extend that "darkness" to divinations, so any divination that targets Ythog-Nthlei or a being within 30 feet of it just picks up "horrifying darkness".

I'm serious tempted to extend that so that anyone attempting to scry Ythog-Nthlei or read its mind will glimpse the "dark truths of reality" and must save vs insanity (as well as picking up no useful information).

 

[Nookie]

Now i wanna stat out Zoth Ommog LOL. I like the dark secrets idea and the reading his mind or using divination on him causing insanity. I think its a nice compromise.

 

[freyar]

Yeah, Zoth Ommog sounds potentially interesting.

Anyway, I think I'd rather do Ythog-Nthlei as a unique Far-Realmsy NE outsider than an obyrith. I can also get behind the insanity from divinations idea.

Should we start arguing negotiating about ability scores?

 

[Nookie]

Yes lets, we still using dagon as a physical model?