Converting Epic Level Creatures


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Cleon

Legend
Sure, that's fine. I guess we need typical spells prepared --- ugh!
0th level - Detect Magic x3, Read Magic x2??
1st level - ...
Better just post this to get the conversation about these started.

We could crib from some existing high-level sorcerer/wizard.

There are a few Greater Titans we could use, namely Coeus, Crius, Epimetheus and Prometheus. The last two are the closest thematically to Andromidus.


Quoting their CC entries:


Coeus
Coeus can cast arcane spells as a 15th-level sorcerer (6/8/8/8/8/7/7/5; save DC 18 + spell level). He has access to the following spells:
0dancing lights, daze, detect magic, mage hand, message, prestidigitation, ray of frost, resistance, touch of fatigue;
1stexpeditious retreat, protection from good, ray of enfeeblement, reduce person, ventriloquism;
2nddarkness, invisibility, mirror image, spectral hand, summon swarm;
3rddispel magic, displacement, nondetection, rage;
4thcrushing despair, enervation, Evard’s black tentacles, shout;
5thbaleful polymorph, feeblemind, nightmare, prying eyes;
6thcircle of death, eyebite, symbol of fear;
7thgreater shadow conjuration, project image.


Crius
Crius can also cast arcane spells as a 15th-level sorcerer (6/9/9/8/8/8/8/5; save DC 20 + spell level). He has access to the following spells:
0arcane mark, dancing lights, daze, ghost sound, mage hand, message, open/close, prestidigitation, touch of fatigue;
1stexpeditious retreat, feather fall, magic missile, ray of enfeeblement, Tenser’s floating disk;
2ndblur, misdirection, owl’s wisdom, pyrotechnics, spider climb;
3rdgaseous form, halt undead, haste, ray of exhaustion;
4thmass enlarge person, mass reduce person, Otiluke’s resilient sphere, stoneskin;
5thtelekinesis, transmute rock to mud, wall of force, waves of fatigue;
6thmass bull’s strength, move earth, repulsion;
7threverse gravity, symbol of weakness.


Epimetheus
Epimetheus can also cast arcane spells as a 15th-level sorcerer (6/9/9/8/8/8/8/5; save DC 20 + spell level). He has access to the following spells:
0arcane mark, dancing lights, ghost sound, mage hand, mending, message, open/close, prestidigitation, resistance;
1stexpeditious retreat, grease, jump, Tenser’s floating disk, true strike;
2ndcat's grace, fog cloud, fox's cunning, mirror image, touch of idiocy; 3rd – displacement, fly, haste, slow;
4tharcane eye, confusion, scrying, stone shape;
5thbaleful polymorph, fabricate, major creation, transmute rock to mud;
6thflesh to stone, greater heroism, true seeing;
7thbanishment, mass hold person, statue.


Prometheus
Prometheus can also cast arcane spells as a 15th-level wizard. He has access to the following spells:
0 – acid splash, arcane mark, dancing lights, daze, detect magic, detect poison, disrupt undead, flare, ghost sound, light, mage hand, mending, message, open/close, prestidigitation, ray of frost, read magic, resistance, touch of fatigue;
1st – alarm, burning hands, detect undead, feather fall, hypnotism, identify, magic missile, obscuring mist, ray of enfeeblement;
2nd – bear’s endurance, continual flame, detect thoughts, flaming sphere, fox’s cunning, glitterdust, mirror image, owl’s wisdom, protection from arrows, scorching ray, see invisibility, shatter, Tasha’s hideous laughter, touch of idiocy, web;
3rd – blink, clairaudience/clairvoyance, deep slumber, displacement, fireball, gaseous form, halt undead, haste, magic circle against evil, nondetection, suggestion, tongues;
4th – fire shield, locate creature, mass enlarge person, mass reduce person, shout, solid fog, stoneskin, wall of fire;
5th – baleful polymorph, break enchantment, dominate person, dream, feeblemind, permanency, wall of force;
6th – antimagic field, contingency, disintegrate, geas/quest, greater heroism, mass bull’s strength, mass suggestion, mislead, true seeing;
7th – banishment, delayed blast fireball, greater arcane sight, greater scrying, greater teleport, insanity, limited wish, spell turning, vision;
8th – Bigby’s grasping hand, discern location, incendiary cloud, Otto’s irresistible dance, protection from spells, summon monster VIII, sunburst.


Typical Wizard Spells Prepared (4/8/8/8/7/7/6/5/3; save DC 25 + spell level);
0 – disrupt undead, ghost sound, mending, prestidigitation;
1st – burning hands, feather fall, hypnotism, identify, magic missile (x2), obscuring mist, ray of enfeeblement;
2nd – continual flame, detect thoughts, mirror image, owl’s wisdom (x2), protection from arrows, see invisibility, Tasha’s hideous laughter;
3rd – blink, clairaudience/clairvoyance, deep slumber, fireball, gaseous form, magic circle against evil, nondetection, tongues;
4th – fire shield, locate creature, mass enlarge person, mass reduce person, shout, solid fog, stoneskin;
5th – baleful polymorph, break enchantment, dominate person, dream, feeblemind, permanency, wall of force;
6th – antimagic field, disintegrate, greater heroism, mass bull’s strength, mislead, true seeing;
7th – banishment, greater arcane sight, greater teleport, insanity, spell turning;
8th – Bigby’s grasping hand, discern location, protection from spells.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Why don't we then start with Prometheus's spells prepared and work from there?

But shouldn't Andromidus have more bonus spells? Shouldn't he have 4 spells at each level + 0/4/4/3/3/3/3/2/2/2 bonus spells?
 

Cleon

Legend
Why don't we then start with Prometheus's spells prepared and work from there?

Sounds like a plan!

But shouldn't Andromidus have more bonus spells? Shouldn't he have 4 spells at each level + 0/4/4/3/3/3/3/2/2/2 bonus spells?

Yes, the 5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5 in the current Working Draft's Typical Wizard Spells Prepared is just a place-holder. I didn't bother figuring out the numbers.

Come to think of it, I should figure out the spells for his Cleric levels too since Andromidus has a super-high Wisdom.

Actually, Prometheus has Int 40 so he's got one more bonus spell at 3rd and 7th level than Andromidus. We'll need to cut one of Prometheus's 3rd level spells out.

Prometheus Typical Wizard Spells Prepared (4/8/8/8/7/7/6/5/3).
4/4/4/4/4/4/3/2/1 from CL 15th
0/4/4/4/3/3/3/3/2 from Int 40.

Andromidus Typical Wizard Spells Prepared (4/8/8/7/7/7/7/6/6/6).
4/4/4/4/4/4/4/4/4/4 from CL 25th
0/4/4/3/3/3/3/2/2/2 from Int 39.

Comparing the two, if we start with Prometheus's spells, we need to remove one of the 3rd-level spells and add a 6th level spell, a 7th level spell, three 8th level spells, and six 9th level spells.

4/8/8/8/7/7/6/5/3 [Prometheus]
4/8/8/7/7/7/7/6/6/6 [Andromidus]

I've updated the Andromidus Working Draft with the correct spell roster and the +5 racial bonus to Illusions.
 


freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I'd apply the racial bonus to SLAs, yes.

If we're starting with Prometheus's spells, I think I'd drop fireball at 3rd level.
Fiddling around with the lower level spells, I'd substitute read magic and detect magic for disrupt undead and ghost sound at 0th level (esp since he can cast ghost sound spontaneously), leave 1st level alone, and replace mirror image with something like summon swarm or flaming sphere.
 

Cleon

Legend
I'd apply the racial bonus to SLAs, yes.

If we're starting with Prometheus's spells, I think I'd drop fireball at 3rd level.

I agree to both, so I'll update the Andromidus Working Draft.

Fiddling around with the lower level spells, I'd substitute read magic and detect magic for disrupt undead and ghost sound at 0th level (esp since he can cast ghost sound spontaneously), leave 1st level alone, and replace mirror image with something like summon swarm or flaming sphere.

That raises a good point - we should cut out all the Illusion SLAs, since Andromidus can cast them spontaneously.
 


Cleon

Legend
Are you ok with my suggestions for spell levels 0-2?

Let's see, you proposed:

0read magic, detect magic, mending, prestidigitation;
1stburning hands, feather fall, hypnotism, identify, magic missile (x2), obscuring mist, ray of enfeeblement;
2ndcontinual flame, detect thoughts, owl’s wisdom (x2), protection from arrows, see invisibility, summon swarm, Tasha’s hideous laughter;

Hmm... two owl's wisdom seems superfluous, especially when his main CL is Int-based. Wouldn't fox's cunning make better sense? Or, failing that, eagle's splendor. Heck, why not give him all three mental attribute boosting spells?

He's also got epic damage reduction and at-will invisibility purge as a CL 25th SLA, so protection from arrows and see invisibility seem a bit superfluous, although they still have their uses I suppose, so we could keep them.

That'd make the 2nd level:

2ndcontinual flame, detect thoughts, eagle's splendor, fox's cunning, owl’s wisdom, protection from arrows, see invisibility, Tasha’s hideous laughter;
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
That'll work, but I'd still swap in summon swarm for something. Hard to know which is more useful, that, protection from arrows, or see invisibility.
 

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