Converting First Edition Monsters

[freyar]

OK, I can go along with 1d10/1d10 compared to the wyvern's 2d6/2d6. It's strong, but it's not unreasonable for the likely CR.

Speaking of CR, that should likely bump to CR 2. But I'll wait on an update/de-red-ification.

 

[Cleon]

OK, I can go along with 1d10/1d10 compared to the wyvern's 2d6/2d6. It's strong, but it's not unreasonable for the likely CR.

Updating the Pungi Ray Working Draft.

Hmm, upon reflection I'd be OK with 1d8/1d8 Con for the poison, the same as the SRD Phase Spider.

Also, I wonder whether we need something to boost the Fort DC. Maybe a +2 or +3 racial bonus? Fort DC 12 seems a bit too weak, I think a DC of 15 or so would be more appropriate.

Speaking of CR, that should likely bump to CR 2. But I'll wait on an update/de-red-ification.

Yes, it's definitely a Challenge Rating or two nastier than the CR 1 Manta Ray, but we can worry about that when we come to it.

 

[freyar]

A +2 racial bonus to the poison DC feels about right. +3 is just not a normal number.

Are we ready for skills and feats?

 

[Cleon]

A +2 racial bonus to the poison DC feels about right. +3 is just not a normal number.

It seems no less normal than +2 to me!

Still, +2 works or me. We could bump the Con up if we wanted to make the poison DC (and the rest of the Ray) a bit tougher.

What about the suggestion of making the poison damage 1d8/1d8?

Are we ready for skills and feats?

No reason not to talk about them.

 

[freyar]

1d8/1d8 is fine for the poison.

Actually, I think I'm ok with skills and feats as they are, if that's ok for you.

 

[Cleon]

1d8/1d8 is fine for the poison.

Updating the Pungi Ray Working Draft.

Actually, I think I'm ok with skills and feats as they are, if that's ok for you.

Surely it needs a sizable Hide skill, since it's whole modus operandi is lying on the seafloor and waiting for some poor sap to step on it?

I'd be inclined to borrow some skill description from our Sea Bat conversion:

*When it is lying still along the seafloor, a sea bat has a +12 racial bonus on Hide checks. Further, a sea bat can bury itself in silt or mud with only its eyes showing, gaining a +10 cover bonus on Hide checks.
​

Maybe:

Skills: Hide –1* (+7 on sea floor, +17 if buried), Listen +7, Spot +6, Swim +10
Feats: Alertness, Skill Focus (Hide)

Skills: A pungi ray has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line.

*A pungi ray has a +8 racial bonus on Hide checks when in areas of seaweed or lying on the sea floor. Further, a pungi ray can bury itself in silt or mud with only its eyes showing, gaining a +10 cover bonus on Hide checks.

 

[freyar]

Good point. But why cut the Hide bonus to +8? The sea bat's +12 would be fine.

 

[Cleon]

Good point. But why cut the Hide bonus to +8? The sea bat's +12 would be fine.

'Cause the Pungi Ray is a size smaller than the Sea Bat and therefore has a 4 point lower size penalty to Hide.

 

[freyar]

Fair enough, but maybe it should be better at hiding, given its preferred method of hunting (though I confess I can't remember what the sea bat does). Either way, though. It doesn't much matter to me.

 

[Cleon]

Fair enough, but maybe it should be better at hiding, given its preferred method of hunting (though I confess I can't remember what the sea bat does). Either way, though. It doesn't much matter to me.

The Sea Bat lies on the sea bed and swallows creatures unfortunate enough to pass over it. So it's pretty much the same modus operandi.

Also, the proposal already has a better Hide than the Sea Bat. Three points better to be precise, as the Sea Bat has Hide +4 on the sea floor and Hide +14 if buried.

The Sea Bat is a few Challenge Ratings higher than the Pungi Ray, which might argue for it having a higher Hide skill than the Pungi. It does have a decent Swim speed of 50 ft though and doesn't need to wait for a victim to literally be within stepping distance before it strikes, so I'm not that bothered by that.

So, shall I update the Pungi with the proposed skills?