Converting Greyhawk monsters

[freyar]

Whew, I'm going to let you two argue this out until I can come to an opinion.

 

[Shade]

I'm not going to buy you much time, as Cleon's assessment makes perfect sense.

 

[freyar]

That was easy!

Here's a start at a modification, but we need to decide how they wake up. Recovering 1 hp/HD/hour means they're going to stay knocked out for a while. It would be better for them to wake up faster; maybe have them wake up after 1 round with all nonlethal damage healed?

Aura of Palpable Terror (Su): A darksider exudes can radiate a 20-foot-radius fear aura as a free action. A creature in the area must succeed on a DC x Will save or be affected as though by a fear spell (caster level xth). A creature that successfully saves cannot be affected again by the same darksider's aura for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Creatures within the aura also take 2d6 points of nonlethal damage each round they remain within the aura. A creature reduced to unconsciousness from nonlethal damage in this manner suffers 1d2 points of Wisdom drain. Victims perceive the damage as coming from an attack (spell or weapon) by the darksider.

 

[Cleon]

That was easy!

Here's a start at a modification, but we need to decide how they wake up. Recovering 1 hp/HD/hour means they're going to stay knocked out for a while. It would be better for them to wake up faster; maybe have them wake up after 1 round with all nonlethal damage healed?

Aura of Palpable Terror (Su): A darksider exudes can radiate a 20-foot-radius fear aura as a free action. A creature in the area must succeed on a DC x Will save or be affected as though by a fear spell (caster level xth). A creature that successfully saves cannot be affected again by the same darksider's aura for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Creatures within the aura also take 2d6 points of nonlethal damage each round they remain within the aura. A creature reduced to unconsciousness from nonlethal damage in this manner suffers 1d2 points of Wisdom drain. Victims perceive the damage as coming from an attack (spell or weapon) by the darksider.

Hmm, methinks we should review the original text:

The PCs can now react, but actions other than disbelief will do them little good. Any attacks by their “vision” will seem real.

In the though projection attack that follows, each character must react individually to his fear. Remember that the PCs have not moved, although they may seem to be removed from the rest of the group, so watch for area-effect spells or any combat.

The only way to fight the Darksider is to demonstrate an act of disbelief or become unconscious. Otherwise run combat normally.

Darksider (1): Int Genius; AL NE; AC n/a; MV instantaneous; HD n/a; hp: n/a; #AT 1; THAC0 hits automatically; Dmg as victim x 2 (apparent damage); SA ESP, thought projection (no save); SD immune to most attacks.

The Darksider
The Darksider is an energy being from the Negative Material plane, that feeds on anxiety and fear. The Darksider appears as a ghost-like form of each of its “victims.” Using ESP, the Darksider determines the single greatest fear of each subject. It then uses thought projection to create the deepest, darkest fears of its subject. If “killed” by this fear, the victim does not die but merely falls unconscious. Afterwards, the victim is forever immune to that Darksider’s attack.

Most deaths that are attributed to Darksider appearances have been caused by adventurers attempting to slay it, and actually slaying other party members. Deaths have also occured through attempts to flee the illusion. Otherwise, a Darksider is incapable of giving or receiving physical damage.
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Okay, that's pretty confusing, not to mention just messy, but it makes me wonder whether we're taking the wrong tack. Note that (a) there's no save and (b) those "killed" become immune to that Darksider.

Does this "thought projection" attack trap victims in a dream world like to the psionic power microcosm? The victims can move about and attack but it sounds like they're unaware of their surroundings. Coincidentally microcosm has no saving throw.

A literal interpretation (with the addition of a Wisdom drain) would be something like:

Nightmare Projection (Su): A darksider can trap opponents in a waking nightmare, affecting X intelligent creatures within Y. There is no saving throw, but spell resistance applies and nightmare projection does not affect creatures with immunity to fear or mind-affecting powers. Creatures trapped within the nightmare projection can act normally, but perceive their surrounding as whatever the darksider desires them to - an ally may appear a terrible monster, a charnel chasm may become a perfumed garden.

A darksider can create phantasmal monsters or spells to attack its nightmare victims. These do between 1 and 4d6 points of illusory damage (half with a DC Z Will save). This illusory damage appears real to the victim, but has no reality. The darksider can nightmare attack its victims in any combination it desires. Note that a nightmare projection can also disguise the source of real damage - for example, two victims may unknowingly attack each other because the nightmare projection made them see each other as monsters.

If the damage from a nightmare attack would reduce a victim to 0 or fewer hit points, the victim can escape the nightmare if they succeed at a DC X Will save. If this save succeeds, the victim becomes immune to the nightmare projection of that darksider for 24 hours. Should the victim fail the Will save, they take 1d3? Wisdom drain and believe they have been killed, falling unconscious for 1d8? rounds and then waking without any illusory damage (the victim believes the darksider has resurrected them in order to continue tormenting them). The darksider gains 5 temporary hit points every time it drains a victim's Wisdom, if it drains a victim's Wisdom to 0 the victim will die for real.

 

[freyar]

I like that (with a few edits)! First, it should be Sp if SR applies, so it has a caster level. But the great thing about it is that it seems to include everything we wanted all in one ability.

Here's my modification, so see how you like it.

Nightmare Projection (Sp): A darksider can trap opponents in a waking nightmare, affecting X intelligent creatures within 60 ft. There is no saving throw, but spell resistance applies and nightmare projection does not affect creatures with immunity to fear or mind-affecting powers. Creatures trapped within the nightmare projection can act normally, but perceive their surrounding as whatever the darksider desires them to -- an ally may appear a terrible monster, or a charnel chasm may become a perfumed garden.

A darksider can create phantasmal monsters or spells to attack its nightmare victims. These do between 1 and 4d6 points of nonlethal damage (half with a DC Z Will save). The darksider can attack its victims through a nightmare projection in any combination it desires. Note that a nightmare projection can also disguise the source of lethal damage -- for example, two victims may unknowingly attack each other because the nightmare projection made them see each other as monsters.

If the victim of a nightmare projection falls unconscious, the victim can escape the nightmare if they succeed at a DC X Will save. If this save succeeds, the victim becomes immune to the nightmare projection of that darksider for 24 hours and wakes with all nonlethal damage healed after 1d8? rounds. Should the victim fail the Will save, they take 1d3? Wisdom drain and believe they have been killed, falling unconscious for 1d8? rounds and then waking without any illusory damage (the victim believes the darksider has resurrected them in order to continue tormenting them). The darksider gains 5 temporary hit points every time it drains a victim's Wisdom. A victim whose Wisdom reaches 0 due to a nightmare projection dies.

This ability is equivalent to a X-level spell. Caster level X.

Could probably still use some work, but it looks good. Maybe we should specify that, no matter how many times it uses its nightmare projection, it can affect only a max of X creatures at a time or something.

 

[Cleon]

I like that (with a few edits)! First, it should be Sp if SR applies, so it has a caster level. But the great thing about it is that it seems to include everything we wanted all in one ability.

Here's my modification, so see how you like it.

Nightmare Projection (Sp): A darksider can trap opponents in a waking nightmare, affecting X intelligent creatures within 60 ft. There is no saving throw, but spell resistance applies and nightmare projection does not affect creatures with immunity to fear or mind-affecting powers. Creatures trapped within the nightmare projection can act normally, but perceive their surrounding as whatever the darksider desires them to -- an ally may appear a terrible monster, or a charnel chasm may become a perfumed garden.

A darksider can create phantasmal monsters or spells to attack its nightmare victims. These do between 1 and 4d6 points of nonlethal damage (half with a DC Z Will save). The darksider can attack its victims through a nightmare projection in any combination it desires. Note that a nightmare projection can also disguise the source of lethal damage -- for example, two victims may unknowingly attack each other because the nightmare projection made them see each other as monsters.

If the victim of a nightmare projection falls unconscious, the victim can escape the nightmare if they succeed at a DC X Will save. If this save succeeds, the victim becomes immune to the nightmare projection of that darksider for 24 hours and wakes with all nonlethal damage healed after 1d8? rounds. Should the victim fail the Will save, they take 1d3? Wisdom drain and believe they have been killed, falling unconscious for 1d8? rounds and then waking without any illusory damage (the victim believes the darksider has resurrected them in order to continue tormenting them). The darksider gains 5 temporary hit points every time it drains a victim's Wisdom. A victim whose Wisdom reaches 0 due to a nightmare projection dies.

This ability is equivalent to a X-level spell. Caster level X.

Could probably still use some work, but it looks good. Maybe we should specify that, no matter how many times it uses its nightmare projection, it can affect only a max of X creatures at a time or something.

I don't think we need to change it to (Sp) to allow a SR check, we can use "Exception-based design" and just state a caster level equivalent (HD? HD+X?).

If we make it (Sp) it raises the question of casting time, Concentration, whether its casting can be interrupted, what dispel magic does, et cetera et cetera.

With all that, making it (Su) with SR + CL seems easier.

 

[freyar]

You don't have to worry about all that with most SLAs; it's just standard business.

 

[Cleon]

You don't have to worry about all that with most SLAs; it's just standard business.

Standard business it may be, but it changes how a power operates.

I still prefer (Su).

 

[Shade]

I slightly favor Su.

 

[Cleon]

I slightly favor Su.

Victory is mine!