Converting monsters from the second edition Monstrous Compendiums

[BOZ]

OK, here is how our combat section is beginning to shape up at the moment. let me know what you think of that.

COMBAT
A typical bloodsipper can start an encounter with as many as 12 pod denizens. Each pod denizen is Medium sized with a reach of 20 feet, and the pod denizens are found roughly evenly throughout a bloodsipper’s space. A bloodsipper can only attack as many foes as are within reach of its pod denizens. While tethered to a bloodsipper, pod denizens are stationary and cannot move independently of the plant; once a tether is severed, that pod denizen is permanently separated from its bloodsipper and becomes a separate creature.

An opponent can attack a bloodsipper’s pod denizen tethers with a sunder attempt as if they were weapons. A bloodsipper’s tethers have 10 hit points each. If a pod denizen currently grappling a target is attached to a bloodsipper with the tether that is being attacked, another pod denizen usually makes the bloodsipper's attack of opportunity against the opponent making the sunder attempt. Severing one of a bloodsipper’s tethers deals (X) points of damage to the creature. The creature regrows severed tethers in (X) days.

Attach (Ex): If a bloodsipper hits with a bite attack, it uses the four clawed arms that surround the maw to latch onto the opponent’s body. An attached bloodsipper is effectively grappling its prey.

An attached bloodsipper can be struck with a weapon or grappled itself. To remove an attached bloodsipper through grappling, the opponent must achieve a pin against the bloodsipper.

Blood Drain (Ex): A bloodsipper drains blood, dealing 1d4(?) points of Constitution damage in any round when it begins its turn attached to a victim. On each successful attack, the bloodsipper gains 5 temporary hit points(?).

Pod Denizen (Ex): A bloodsipper makes bite attacks using its pod denizens, and can make up to one bite attack per round for every pod denizen it currently has. Once all of its pod denizens are separated from it, however, a bloodsipper cannot attack. A pod denizen can sever the tether of a mature pod as a move action.

A detached pod denizen uses the same statistics as the base plant, except that it has (4 HD, Str, Dex, etc whatever, speed 40 feet).

Sensory Vines (Ex): A bloodsipper's vines fill its space. A creature can move through a bloodsipper's space freely—although. its vines act as light undergrowth, with the exception that creatures in the bloodsipper's space do not gain concealment against the bloodsipper. A bloodsipper can automatically pinpoint the location of anything within its space, although a creature that succeeds on a DC X Spot (?) check can attempt to avoid contact with the vines, but must move at half (?) speed.


OK, here's some additional stuff about the creature to consider:

The initial attack by a head springing from a pod delivers a d10 knockdown die with the force of its disgorgement from the pod. All attacks by the heads occur in the last phase of the combat round.

Free bull rush or trip attempt with initial disgorgement?

sure, if by "free" you mean no AoO.

we'll see how we can fit that in there. it would only apply to the first attack by any given pod in an encounter.

SD damage to pods does not harm vine & vice versa, severing tether does not harm pods

good point, can't forget to mention those...

Cutting a small pod open releases a gagging stench (save vs. paralyzation or suffer a —4 penalty to all actions, checks, and saves for one turn due to nausea)

OK, so the immature pods have a stankiness to them, but the text doesn't seem to say anything about whether the mature attacking pods have this feature.

Salt in quantity makes a vine or head pull away convulsively; a handful inflicting 2d4 points of damage (much as holy water affects undead).

definitely need to work this one in!

The yellow vine of a bloodsipper is always anchored in stone floors and walls with tough rootlets, making it difficult to dislodge.

probably ought to give the bloodsipper immunity to being tripped, knocked down, etc. i know we gave this ability to the draknor, but i could swear i've seen it somewhere else recently as well.

 

[Shade]

Anything I didn't directly comment on I agree with.

An opponent can attack a bloodsipper’s pod denizen tethers with a sunder attempt as if they were weapons. A bloodsipper’s tethers have 10 hit points each. If a pod denizen currently grappling a target is attached to a bloodsipper with the tether that is being attacked, another pod denizen usually makes the bloodsipper's attack of opportunity against the opponent making the sunder attempt. Severing one of a bloodsipper’s tethers deals (X) points of damage to the creature. The creature regrows severed tethers in (X) days.

10 points of damage from severing?

Both krakens and squids regrow severed bits in 1d10+10 days. I think that could work here as well.

Blood Drain (Ex): A bloodsipper drains blood, dealing 1d4(?) points of Constitution damage in any round when it begins its turn attached to a victim. On each successful attack, the bloodsipper gains 5 temporary hit points(?).

1d4 Con/5 temp hps sounds good.

Sensory Vines (Ex): A bloodsipper's vines fill its space. A creature can move through a bloodsipper's space freely—although. its vines act as light undergrowth, with the exception that creatures in the bloodsipper's space do not gain concealment against the bloodsipper. A bloodsipper can automatically pinpoint the location of anything within its space, although a creature that succeeds on a DC X Spot (?) check can attempt to avoid contact with the vines, but must move at half (?) speed.

Treating as light undergrowth and moving at half speed are redundant. We could either drop the slower speed to avoid, or increase it to equivalent to heavy undergrowth (4 squares of movement per space, more difficult Move Silently and Tumble checks). DC 15 for the check?

OK, so the immature pods have a stankiness to them, but the text doesn't seem to say anything about whether the mature attacking pods have this feature.

We could retcon them to give it to the mature pods, or otherwise just mention it in the flavor text, as it wouldn't have a combat effect.

definitely need to work this one in!

We could modify this ability from the 3E abishai...

Vulnerability to Holy Water (Ex): Abishai take 2d4 damage from a flask of holy water, or 1 point of damage from a splash of holy water.

probably ought to give the bloodsipper immunity to being tripped, knocked down, etc. i know we gave this ability to the draknor, but i could swear i've seen it somewhere else recently as well.

Here's one from MMIII...

Can't Be Tripped (Ex): A seryulin's body shape makes it impossible for a foe to trip the creature. Any trip attempts against the seryulin automatically fail, as if the opponent had failed to win the opposed Strength check.

 

[Aspect of BOZ]

Anything I didn't directly comment on I agree with.

understood.

10 points of damage from severing?

Both krakens and squids regrow severed bits in 1d10+10 days. I think that could work here as well.

OK, the GoFP writup mentions that severing the tether does not harm the pod, but i don't think it said anything about whether it harms the bloodsipper or not. i'd say that yes, it does harm the main plant. 10 damage seems like a lot, even if the plant should have more than enough hp to take it. yes, no?

regrowth speed sounds fine.

maybe we should also add a line somewhere that says any attacks on the pod itself deals no damage to the main plant? any predecent for that? also, killing the main plant would just set any living mature pods free, since they are just about ready to go anyway.

Treating as light undergrowth and moving at half speed are redundant. We could either drop the slower speed to avoid, or increase it to equivalent to heavy undergrowth (4 squares of movement per space, more difficult Move Silently and Tumble checks). DC 15 for the check?

i'm not entirely sure there should be a check for avoiding the plant's notice, but i could see why it's only fair to include one. DC 15 seems small, especially given what the CR is likely to be. if it is small like that, it would absolutely have to be a per-round per-character check. i'd say make it half-half (1/4) speed to avoid notice, or make the check higher (20?) to make it more of a challenge to sneak past.

i thought light undergrowth was fine, but heavy might be better. what do you think?

also, for the knockdown on initial attack, how can we implement that?

We could retcon them to give it to the mature pods, or otherwise just mention it in the flavor text, as it wouldn't have a combat effect.

i'm thinking of favoring that as flavor text.

We could modify this ability from the 3E abishai...

Vulnerability to Holy Water (Ex): Abishai take 2d4 damage from a flask of holy water, or 1 point of damage from a splash of holy water.

do we have a precedent for using grainy stuff like salt as a splash weapon? if not, would it be enough to say that a handful of salt can be throw and that works like throwing a flask?

Here's one from MMIII...

Can't Be Tripped (Ex): A seryulin's body shape makes it impossible for a foe to trip the creature. Any trip attempts against the seryulin automatically fail, as if the opponent had failed to win the opposed Strength check.

here's what we gave the draknor:
Immoveable (Ex): A draknor anchors itself to the walls of its lair using 12 rock-hard extensions. This renders a draknor immune to bull rush and trip attacks.

i think we should combine the two ideas; the bloodsipper's immovability probably has more to do with anchoring itself than its body shape (though that does play a part), but some of the seryulin's language is better.

 

[Shade]

OK, the GoFP writup mentions that severing the tether does not harm the pod, but i don't think it said anything about whether it harms the bloodsipper or not. i'd say that yes, it does harm the main plant. 10 damage seems like a lot, even if the plant should have more than enough hp to take it. yes, no?

I borrowed that amount from the kraken, which has similiar HD.

maybe we should also add a line somewhere that says any attacks on the pod itself deals no damage to the main plant? any predecent for that? also, killing the main plant would just set any living mature pods free, since they are just about ready to go anyway.

We could do that. We could modify this from the roper:

"A strand has 10 hit points and can be attacked by making a successful sunder attempt. However, attacking a roper’s strand does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If the strand is currently attached to a target, the roper takes a –4 penalty on its opposed attack roll to resist the sunder attempt. Severing a strand deals no damage to a roper."

i'm not entirely sure there should be a check for avoiding the plant's notice, but i could see why it's only fair to include one. DC 15 seems small, especially given what the CR is likely to be. if it is small like that, it would absolutely have to be a per-round per-character check. i'd say make it half-half (1/4) speed to avoid notice, or make the check higher (20?) to make it more of a challenge to sneak past.

DC 20 sounds fine, and simpler.

i thought light undergrowth was fine, but heavy might be better. what do you think?

I think light is fine in general; I was suggesting that someone intenionally avoiding the tendrils (and thus detection) must treat it as heavy undergrowth.

also, for the knockdown on initial attack, how can we implement that?

How's this?

Startling Strike (Ex): If a bloodsipper catches an opponent flat-footed with its first attack in a given encounter, it may make a free bull rush attempt against the foe.

do we have a precedent for using grainy stuff like salt as a splash weapon? if not, would it be enough to say that a handful of salt can be throw and that works like throwing a flask?

Yes. Feather powder in BoVD and sleep powder in a 3.5 Dragon mag are both splash weapons.

here's what we gave the draknor:
Immoveable (Ex): A draknor anchors itself to the walls of its lair using 12 rock-hard extensions. This renders a draknor immune to bull rush and trip attacks.

i think we should combine the two ideas; the bloodsipper's immovability probably has more to do with anchoring itself than its body shape (though that does play a part), but some of the seryulin's language is better.

How's this?

Immoveable (Ex): A bloodsipper anchors itself to the ground using its numerous roots. This makes it impossible for a foe to bull rush or trip the creature. Any bull rush or trip attempts against the bloodsipper automatically fail, as if the opponent had failed to win the opposed Strength check.

 

[BOZ]

I borrowed that amount from the kraken, which has similiar HD.

Ok, but keep in mind that a kraken's appendages are probably more a part of the creature than a bloodsipper's tethers would be - plus, if you sever all potential 12 of a bloodsipper's tethers, 10 points from each might be enough to kill the plant on its own. i think 5 points should cover it.

We could do that. We could modify this from the roper:

"A strand has 10 hit points and can be attacked by making a successful sunder attempt. However, attacking a roper’s strand does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If the strand is currently attached to a target, the roper takes a –4 penalty on its opposed attack roll to resist the sunder attempt. Severing a strand deals no damage to a roper."

i was thinking more of attacks on a pod (from foes who don't recognize that the pod denizen is tethered to the bloodsipper, attacking it as a separate creature), rather than sunder attempts. how should we handle that, when a denizen is still tethered?

DC 20 sounds fine, and simpler.

how does this sound? that sentence probably needs to be broken up a bit.

A bloodsipper can automatically pinpoint the location of anything within its space, although a creature that succeeds on a DC 20 Spot check can avoid contact with the vines, but must make a new check each round.

I think light is fine in general; I was suggesting that someone intenionally avoiding the tendrils (and thus detection) must treat it as heavy undergrowth.

if you can figure out a way to work that into the above bit, then OK.

How's this?

Startling Strike (Ex): If a bloodsipper catches an opponent flat-footed with its first attack in a given encounter, it may make a free bull rush attempt against the foe.

great - i'll take it.

Yes. Feather powder in BoVD and sleep powder in a 3.5 Dragon mag are both splash weapons.

thanks, i'll look a those to see how i want to deal with it.

How's this?

Immoveable (Ex): A bloodsipper anchors itself to the ground using its numerous roots. This makes it impossible for a foe to bull rush or trip the creature. Any bull rush or trip attempts against the bloodsipper automatically fail, as if the opponent had failed to win the opposed Strength check.

also great!

 

[Kafkonia]

A bloodsipper can automatically pinpoint the location of anything within its space, although a creature that succeeds on a DC 20 Spot check can avoid contact with the vines, but must make a new check each round.

Two variants:

A bloodsipper can automatically pinpoint the location of anything within its space. A creature that succeeds on a DC 20 Spot check can avoid contact with the vines, but must make a new check each round.

or

A bloodsipper can automatically pinpoint the location of anything within its space, although a creature that succeeds on a DC 20 Spot check can avoid contact with the vines. A new spot check must be made each round.

I prefer my first revision.

 

[Shade]

Ok, but keep in mind that a kraken's appendages are probably more a part of the creature than a bloodsipper's tethers would be - plus, if you sever all potential 12 of a bloodsipper's tethers, 10 points from each might be enough to kill the plant on its own. i think 5 points should cover it.

5 works for me.

i was thinking more of attacks on a pod (from foes who don't recognize that the pod denizen is tethered to the bloodsipper, attacking it as a separate creature), rather than sunder attempts. how should we handle that, when a denizen is still tethered?

Maybe it woudl be easiest to simply follow the lead of the hydra?

how does this sound? that sentence probably needs to be broken up a bit.

A bloodsipper can automatically pinpoint the location of anything within its space, although a creature that succeeds on a DC 20 Spot check can avoid contact with the vines, but must make a new check each round.

I like Kafkonia's first revision in the above post.

if you can figure out a way to work that into the above bit, then OK.

Taking everything into consideration, how's this?

Sensory Vines (Ex): A bloodsipper's vines fill its space. A creature can move through a bloodsipper's space, but treat its space as light undergrowth for the purposes of movement and skill penalties, but concealment does not apply. A bloodsipper can automatically pinpoint the location of anything within its space. A creature that succeeds on a DC 20 Spot check can avoid contact with the vines, but must make a new check each round. A creature that avoids contacts with the vine treats the bloodsipper's space as heavy undergrowth for purposes of movement and skill penalties.

 

[Kafkonia]

Sensory Vines (Ex): A bloodsipper's vines fill its space. A creature can move through a bloodsipper's space, but treat its space as light undergrowth for the purposes of movement and skill penalties, but concealment does not apply. A bloodsipper can automatically pinpoint the location of anything within its space. A creature that succeeds on a DC 20 Spot check can avoid contact with the vines, but must make a new check each round. A creature that avoids contacts with the vine treats the bloodsipper's space as heavy undergrowth for purposes of movement and skill penalties.

I find the bolded bit confusing. Does concealment not apply against anything, or only between the bloodsipper and the creature in its space?

 

[Aspect of BOZ]

5 works for me.

good. 5 x 12 = 60, which would be fewer hp than a 20-HD creature would have, even with a 10 Con. just want to make sure the plant wouldn't be killed just from severing the tethers...

Maybe it woudl be easiest to simply follow the lead of the hydra?

i'll have to look that up again - isn't it essentially that any damage not specifically intended for sundering goes straight to the body?

I like Kafkonia's first revision in the above post.

Taking everything into consideration, how's this?

Sensory Vines (Ex): A bloodsipper's vines fill its space. A creature can move through a bloodsipper's space, but treat its space as light undergrowth for the purposes of movement and skill penalties, but concealment does not apply. A bloodsipper can automatically pinpoint the location of anything within its space. A creature that succeeds on a DC 20 Spot check can avoid contact with the vines, but must make a new check each round. A creature that avoids contacts with the vine treats the bloodsipper's space as heavy undergrowth for purposes of movement and skill penalties.

I find the bolded bit confusing. Does concealment not apply against anything, or only between the bloodsipper and the creature in its space?

we had originally written that part as "creatures in the bloodsipper's space do not gain concealment against the bloodsipper" because, the bloodsipper's vines would help, rather than hinder, in a bloodsipper noticing a creature. i do think that a creature inside a bloodsipper's vines would have concealment against creatures other than the bloodsipper. (say, for example, an orc chases a human into a bloodsipper's chamber. the orc and human would have concealment from each other, but the bloodsipper would have no problem spotting either of them.)

how's this?

Sensory Vines (Ex): A bloodsipper's body is composed of a mass of vines spread throughout its space. A creature can move through a bloodsipper's space, but treats its space as light undergrowth for the purposes of movement and skill penalties, and concealment does not apply to the bloodsipper (need to word that properly). A bloodsipper can automatically pinpoint the location of anything within its space; a creature that succeeds on a DC 20 Spot check can avoid contact with the vines, but must make a new check each round. A creature that successfully avoids contact with the vines treats the bloodsipper's space as heavy undergrowth for purposes of movement and skill penalties.

 

[Kafkonia]

How about this?

Sensory Vines (Ex): A bloodsipper's body is composed of a mass of vines spread throughout its space; creatures can move through a bloodsipper's space, but treat its space as light undergrowth. A bloodsipper can automatically pinpoint the location of anything within its space, and ignores any concealment penalties imposed by the light undergrowth. A creature that succeeds on a DC 20 Spot check can avoid contact with the vines, but treats the space as heavy undergrowth rather than light, and must make a new check each round.