Converting Oriental Adventures creatures

[Cleon]

As said earlier, I'd prefer a Strength and Dexterity ability penalty rather than ability damage.

The effects don't need days to recover under natural healing.

Was thinking the target would make a Fortitude save, with three possible results: Success = just the damage from the unarmed strike; Marginal Failure = adds ability penalty; Bad Failure = ability penalty plus limb/digit of Keeper's choice is paralyzed for 24 hours.

Maybe make the Fort DC and/or ability penalty higher if the Keeper rolls a critical hit?

Do ability penalties stack? In either case, I fancy the ability penalty to be fairly hefty so (a) it actually matters in combat, and (b) it encourages the Keeper to use this attack against several different enemies, rather than having to use Incapacitation several times against the same opponent to have any change of knocking them out of a fight. If it's only 1d4 for example, the Keeper would likely have to hit a Str 10, Dex 10 creature four or more times to render them helpless.

 

[freyar]

Hmm, a penalty is a negative bonus, right? So wouldn't a penalty apply to a certain kind of check? As far as stacking, shouldn't it follow the usual rule of different types (or untyped) stacking but same types overlapping unless otherwise specified?

 

[Cleon]

Hmm, a penalty is a negative bonus, right? So wouldn't a penalty apply to a certain kind of check? As far as stacking, shouldn't it follow the usual rule of different types (or untyped) stacking but same types overlapping unless otherwise specified?

I was thinking it probably doesn't stack since negative ability modifiers don't normally do so.

In most cases, modifiers to a given check or roll stack (combine for a cumulative effect) if they come from different sources and have different types (or no type at all), but do not stack if they have the same type or come from the same source.

However, if we decide Incapacitator applies a circumstance penalty then it could stack:

Dodge bonuses and circumstance bonuses however, do stack with one another unless otherwise specified.

Although the wording of circumstance modifiers is a bit contradictory:

Circumstance Modifier: A circumstance bonus (or penalty) arises from specific conditional factors impacting the success of the task at hand. Circumstance bonuses stack with all other bonuses, including other circumstance bonuses, unless they arise from essentially the same source.

Guess it depends whether an incapacitated left arm is "essentially the same source" as an incapacitated right arm or left leg.

Basically, it boils down to we decide whether we want the penalty from multiple incapacitations to stack or not, and specify which it in the special attack's description.

If the penalty is rolled randomly rather than being a set number, then it doesn't matter so much if it doesn't stack, since the highest roll would apply.

 

[freyar]

Let's just have the penalties overlap. Seems easiest in this case.

 

[Cleon]

How about one of the following?

Basic Version:

Incapacitating Strike (Ex) #1: As a standard action, the Keeper of the Keys makes an unarmed strike attack against the limb of a creature. If it hits, the creature must succeed at a DC 19 Fortitude saving throw or the limb targeted by the Keeper becomes incapacitated for a day (2d8+15 hours)[or 24 hours?].

In addition to the damage, incapacitating strike imposes the following penalties: an incapacitated limb lacks the Strength to hold and carry objects or make attacks, held items are dropped, but worn items are not dropped; if an incapacitated limb is used for locomotion (for example, a leg), the target's speed drops by three-quarters and Dexterity suffers a –8 circumstance penalty; if an incapacitated limb is used for manipulation (for example, an arm), the target's Strength and Dexterity suffers a –8 circumstance penalty and all spells with somatic components require a Concentration check (minimum DC 15).

An incapacitated limb can be restored by a DC 19 Heal check[?] or the use of heal, limited wish, restoration and wish spells. The save DC is Dexterity-based.​

Version with Increased Damage & Critical Strike:

Incapacitating Strike (Ex) #2: As a standard action, the Keeper of the Keys makes an unarmed strike attack against the limb of a creature. If it hits, the creature takes 2d8+3 damage and must succeed at a DC 19 Fortitude saving throw or the limb targeted by the Keeper becomes incapacitated for a day (2d8+15 hours)[or 24 hours?]. If the unarmed strike scored a critical hit, the unarmed strike inflicts 4d8+6 damage, the Fort save increases to DC 24 and the incapacitation lasts 2 to 3 days (2d12+48 hours)[?].

In addition to the damage, incapacitating strike imposes the following penalties: an incapacitated limb lacks the Strength to hold and carry objects or make attacks, held items are dropped, but worn items are not dropped; if an incapacitated limb is used for locomotion (for example, a leg), the target's speed drops by three-quarters and Dexterity suffers a –8 circumstance penalty; if an incapacitated limb is used for manipulation (for example, an arm), the target's Strength and Dexterity suffers a –8 circumstance penalty and all spells with somatic components require a Concentration check (minimum DC 15).

An incapacitated limb can be restored by a DC 19 Heal check (DC 24 for a critical incapacitation)[?] or the use of heal, limited wish, restoration and wish spells. The save DC is Dexterity-based.​

Any preferences?

Also toyed with the idea of giving it a triple damage "supercritical" and/or increasing the base damage so it matched the normal critical damage of the Keeper's unarmed strikes, i.e.:

Incapacitating Strike (Ex) #3: As a standard action, the Keeper of the Keys makes an unarmed strike attack against the limb of a creature. If it hits, the creature takes 2d8+3 damage and must succeed at a DC 19 Fortitude saving throw or the limb targeted by the Keeper becomes incapacitated for a day (2d8+15 hours)[or 24 hours?]. If the unarmed strike scored a critical hit, the unarmed strike inflicts 6d8+9, the Fort save increases to DC 24 and the incapacitation lasts 2 to 3 days (2d12+48 hours)[?].​

Incapacitating Strike (Ex) #4: As a standard action, the Keeper of the Keys makes an unarmed strike attack against the limb of a creature. If it hits, the creature takes 2d10+3 damage and must succeed at a DC 19 Fortitude saving throw or the limb targeted by the Keeper becomes incapacitated for a day (2d8+15 hours)[or 24 hours?]. If the unarmed strike scored a critical hit, the unarmed strike inflicts 4d10+6 damage[6d10+9 damage?], the Fort save increases to DC 24 and the incapacitation lasts 2 to 3 days (2d12+48 hours)[?].​

That felt like it was going a bit too far though.

 

[freyar]

Yeah, no need to go crazy with these. I like option 2, though I'd keep to non-random duration to make it a bit easier to track (I mean, I roughly kept track of days as a DM but not hours usually). So 1 day regular and make it 2 days critical. I also don't think I'd make the Heal check harder for a critical incapacitation. The greater save DC and duration seems like enough.

Is that it for SAs and SQs?

 

[Cleon]

Yeah, no need to go crazy with these. I like option 2, though I'd keep to non-random duration to make it a bit easier to track (I mean, I roughly kept track of days as a DM but not hours usually). So 1 day regular and make it 2 days critical. I also don't think I'd make the Heal check harder for a critical incapacitation. The greater save DC and duration seems like enough.

Will accept the fixed duration, but if the Fort DC is higher for the critical then I feel the Heal check DC ought to be higher too, based on the Heal tasks of Treat Poison and Treat Disease.

That is:

Incapacitating Strike #5 (Ex): As a standard action, the Keeper of the Keys makes an unarmed strike attack against the limb of a creature. If it hits, the creature takes 2d8+3 damage and must succeed at a DC 19 Fortitude saving throw or the limb targeted by the Keeper becomes incapacitated for a day. If the unarmed strike scored a critical hit, the unarmed strike inflicts 4d8+6 damage, the Fort save increases to DC 24 and the incapacitation lasts 2 days.

In addition to the damage, incapacitating strike imposes the following penalties: an incapacitated limb lacks the Strength to hold and carry objects or make attacks, held items are dropped, but worn items are not dropped; if an incapacitated limb is used for locomotion (for example, a leg), the target's speed drops by three-quarters and Dexterity suffers a –8 circumstance penalty; if an incapacitated limb is used for manipulation (for example, an arm), the target's Strength and Dexterity suffers a –8 circumstance penalty and all spells with somatic components require a Concentration check (minimum DC 15).

An incapacitated limb can be restored by a DC 19 Heal check (DC 24 for a critical incapacitation) or the use of heal, limited wish, restoration and wish spells. The save DC is Dexterity-based.​

 

[freyar]

Sure, that seems good to me.

Does that bring us to the end of the SAs?

 

[Cleon]

Sure, that seems good to me.

In that case…

Updating The Keeper of the Key Working Draft.

Does that bring us to the end of the SAs?

This conversion's taken so long I've forgotten the original stats, so better check them…

…it looks like we've got all the Special Abilities filled in except for the Spells.

The first question is does The Keeper have Domains like a full cleric caster and, if so, what should they be?

I'd say no, since the 3E Oriental Adventures sohei just gets divine spells per day without Domain extras.

Domains didn't exist for 1E Oriental Adventures sohei of course.

The second question is, the original sohei obtained its spells slowly like a Paladin. Their first spell was obtained as a 6th-level sohei. The 1E version had a caster level equal to their class level (e.g. a 12th-level sohei is CL 12th) and could cast a limited number of Shugenja spells (the OA version of the cleric/priest). The 3E version had a CL of half their class level.

For our conversion, my initial draft simplified things by giving him 6th-level clerical casting, but they actually had different spells-per-day:

Class & Level​	1E Spells​	3E Spells​
6th-level Cleric	3/3/2	5/3+1/3+1/2+1
6th-level Shukenja	4/2/1	6/6/5/3
12th-level Sohei	3/2/2	–/1/1/1

As you can see, a 12th-level 1E Sohei has 3/2/2 spells-per-day, which is one 2nd-level spell less than the 3/3/2 of a 6th-level 1E Cleric. Their spells are a lot closer to each other than the other editions, so making it a 6th level cleric caster seemed a reasonable approximation.

If you'd rather hue closer to the 3E version of Sohei, we could have the Keeper cast spells as a 12th-level Paladin or Ranger, which would match the spells-per-days in that edition.

They also have their own spell lists rather than just cribbing off the Cleric List.

A 3E Sohei's options are:

1ST-LEVEL SOHEI SPELLS
Attraction*. Attacks are drawn to the subject creature, dealing more damage.
Bane. Enemies suffer –1 attack, –1 on saves against fear.
Bless. Allies gain +1 attack and +1 against fear.
Detect Chaos/Law. Reveals creatures, spells, or objects.
Divine Favor. You gain attack, damage bonus, +1/three levels.
Doom. One subject suffers –2 on attacks, damage, saves, and checks.
Endure Elements. Ignores 5 damage/round from one energy type.
Magic Weapon. Weapon gains +1 bonus.
Protection from Chaos. +2 AC and saves, counter mind control, hedge out elementals and outsiders.
Resistance. Subject gains +1 on saving throws.
Shield of Faith. Aura grants +2 or higher deflection bonus.
Virtue. Subject gains 1 temporary hp.
Weapon Bless*. Prepare one weapon for combat against a particular foe.
2ND-LEVEL SOHEI SPELLS
Animal Messenger. Sends a Tiny animal to a specific place.
Bull’s Strength. Subject gains 1d4+1 Str for 1 hr./level.
Delay Poison. Stops poison from harming subject for 1 hour/level.
Lesser Restoration. Dispels magic ability penalty or repairs 1d4 ability damage.
Remove Paralysis. Frees 1 or more creature.
Resist Elements. Ignores 12/round damage from one energy type.
Shield Other. You take half of subject’s damage.
Warning*. Subject gets +4 to Listen and Spot and retains Dex bonus to AC when flat-footed.
3RD-LEVEL SOHEI SPELLS
Castigate*. Creatures of different alignment take 2d6 or 5d6 damage and are deafened for 1d4 rounds.
Discern Lies. Reveals deliberate falsehoods.
Dispel Magic. Cancels magical spells and effects.
Greater Magic Weapon. +1 bonus/three levels (max +5).
Magic Circle against Chaos. As protection from chaos, but 10-ft. radius and 10 min./level.
Mental Strength. Recipient gains +4 bonus on Will saves.
Prayer. Allies gain +1 on most rolls, and enemies suffer –1.
Protection from Elements. Absorb 12 damage/level from one kind of energy.
​

The 1E Sohei gets:

1st-Level
Animal Companion
Bless [reversable]
Deflection [reversable]
Resist
Weapon Bless
2nd-Level
Chant
Messenger
Slow Poison
Warning
3rd-Level
Castigate
Dispel Magic
Flame Walk
Prayer
​

For ease of reference, the original version of the Keeper of the Keys was an 11th-level Sohei with spells:

1st-level: curse, deflection, cause light wounds
2nd-level: hold person, obscurement
3rd-level: cause blindness
​

Note that cause light wounds, hold person, obscurement and cause blindness are Shukenja spells that are NOT available to Sohei according to the 1E Oriental Adventures.

The Keeper must have learned some mystic secrets to expand its magical repertoire.

 

[freyar]

I like the 12th level paladin/ranger spell progression with a unique spell list. I guess we could say that the Keeper always prepares the same spells every day, so we don't need to write out the full spell list. How's that?