Converting prehistoric animals

[Shade]

There is also a stamping attack listed in both AD&D versions (which does not seems to require that the beast be running – it simply steps on smaller creatures): 1E has 4-40 points of damage, and 2E adds an intentional rearing back to crush opponents that is 5-50 damage.

Sounds like trample to me.

Also, all three sources mention finding bronto most commonly in a marsh or shallow aquatic environment. This could be a holdover from the “needs to be in water to support its weight” theory, but I think scientists to agree that while it didn’t need to be in water, it often was anyway.

Marsh terrain sounds good, but I'll defer to the dino-experts. I haven't kept up with them much since I was a kid.

Other than those items, I think it’s just fine as is. Now of course, we don’t have to actually use all or even any of this stuff – it’s just something to think about. Just ask Shade – I’m always this critical. of course, I expect a return favor…

The man speaks truly.

 

[demiurge1138]

Most paleontologists agree that apatosaurus and other sauropods were dry-land creatures- capable of swimming, certainly, but not semi-aquatic. And I've read at least one source suggesting that apatosaurus was less inclined to live in herds than other sauropods.

I agree that all of the stepping-on style attacks sound like they'd fall under trample.

Demiurge out.

 

[Zaster]

Looking at some of the older write-ups, I have to say -- please don't give this beast a bite attack. Tail attack, yes. Trample yes. But with this creature's peg-like teeth, bite seems unlikely even as a defense.

For natural AC, I suggest something in the 8 to 10 range, just looking at the other dinos (especially seismosaurus). Since we went higher than Urge's version on HD, maybe we should balance that by gravitating toward the low end on natural AC (?)

For size, I'd start at Gargantuan and maybe go Colossal at the highest levels of advancement just for flavor.

For environment... I'm not sure. This thing ate tender shoots off tree tops from what I understand. Forests and swamps maybe?

 

[Shade]

BTW, I'm not sure what kind of impact this may have, but here's a preview for next month's Dragon:

New Dinosaurs
by James Jacobs

What's bigger than a bus and can swallow a Buick whole? Resident dinosaur expert James Jacobs offers the answer.

 

[BOZ]

want to finish the bronto and put the rest on hold till the new dragon comes out? it would really suck to finish half a dozen of these and find out that someone beat us to the punch.

 

[demiurge1138]

Right now, I'm wavering between "Yes!" and "No!" on those new dinos. But I'd be willing to put the project on hold until that issue come out. One thing, though. I doubt many of the dinos in that issue will overlap. I expect to see some of the "new" dinosaurs, like threzinosaurus, baryonyx and giganotosaurus instead of old standbys.

Demiurge out.

 

[BOZ]

we'll see... i say finish the bronto, and let god sort em out. i mean, wait and see - when does the mag come out?

 

[BOZ]

mean time, back to the bronto (i know its real name, but it helps me to call it by the misnomer, which is more familiar to most people. )

here is an updated stat block:

Dinosaur, Apatosaurus (Brontosaurus)
Gargantuan Animal
Hit Dice: 26d8+214 (331 hp)
Initiative: -1
Speed: 20 ft (4 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (-4 size, +9 natural), touch 2, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +19/+43
Attack: Tail slam +27 melee (3d8+18 plus thunderous snap)
Full Attack: Tail slam +27 melee (3d8+18 plus thunderous snap)
Space/Reach: 20ft/15ft
Special Attacks: Thunderous snap, trample 6d8+18
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +25, Ref +15, Will +10
Abilities: Str 34, Dex 11, Con 27, Int 1, Wis 14, Cha 10
Skills: Listen +12, Spot +19 (+6 more ranks)
Feats: Alertness, Diehard, Endurance, Great Fortitude, Toughness (x2) (+3 more)

Environment: Warm forests, plains and hills
Organization: Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating: (10)
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 27-52 HD (Gargantuan); 53-78 HD (Colossal)
Level Advancement: ---

a few questions on that: would small herds of 1-3 or 1-6 be out of the question?

was it not found in a marsh? i think it might make sense to add that to the enivronment entry unless we know for sure they did not really go to swamps.

ok, no bite attack - how about a stamping/crushing sort of attack when the beast is frightened enraged, such as suggested in the 2E example. that one had a regular trample attack (unknowing, probably unintentional on the dino's part) of 4d10 damage, but an intentional attack of 5d10.

thoughts?

 

[Zaster]

a few questions on that: would small herds of 1-3 or 1-6 be out of the question?

Searching around on the net, it seems no large fossil beds have been found for this guy, but they have been found for other sauropods. So it's hard to say. We could just throw in a herd or family number and let the GM can decide whether to use it or not.

was it not found in a marsh? i think it might make sense to add that to the enivronment entry unless we know for sure they did not really go to swamps.

According to this guy, marsh is probably out. Here is another link suggesting a dry environment.

ok, no bite attack - how about a stamping/crushing sort of attack when the beast is frightened enraged, such as suggested in the 2E example. that one had a regular trample attack (unknowing, probably unintentional on the dino's part) of 4d10 damage, but an intentional attack of 5d10.

Not a bad idea... It's been suggested that this thing could have reared up on two legs and come crashing down on an opponent with its heavy forelimbs. Or maybe you could give it Stamp attacks like an elephant has?

 

[Shade]

I'll bet Demiurge is right...they'll probably use "new" dinosaurs. The old ones that have been trolling around since first edition are probably still safe to convert.

BOZ - I like the fact that you're keeping the dinosaurs' "old names" as well as the new ones. Even if science has changed some of the creatures and their names to better reflect their nature, D&D is a fantasy game, so why not keep some of the stuff that's been refuted?