Converting prehistoric creatures

[xidoraven]

What a big pain in the patoot that Wizards had to go and shut down their site until the 26th or later.... I was not happy to find that out earlier today.

I guess Eomanis will have to be from memory for me until it comes back up - which sucks because I like referencing real information. So will Dimorphodon and the other creatures listed there as well....

Something told me in my gut that I should back up the creatures that we posted there... Sorry all.
-will

 

[RavinRay]

Hey, Eomanis. We have a species of Manis in one part of the Philippines. I guess the stat to be worked on in detail is the AC. Also, since the scales are flat and triangular (but not necessarily razor-edged), if they deal slashing damage to predators attempting to grapple a dawn pangolin curled into a ball. If at all.

 

[xidoraven]

For the post I made on Wizards forums, Eomanis had 2 HD, a natural AC bonus of +5, very low Str, average Dex, above average Con. Also, Defensive Ball (Ex) was a special quality, along with Sticky Tongue and Noxious Spray (forget if they were SA or SQ). No one had yet considered Noxious Spray (Ex), and I couldn't find a 3.5 precedent for a skunk's spray as a basis for it.

Defensive Ball (and I am remembering, so this may not be totally right) was willingly become prone, sacrificing Dex bonus to AC (not a biggie, since it was +0 anyway), gain a +2 or +4 misc AC bonus (we were still discussing this because I brought up criticals at the last minute), and any creature attacking it with a light or natural weapon attack would make a Ref/Fort save or else take damage (DC was 10 + Con 2 + 1/2 natural AC bonus, round down to 2 = 14). I got this idea from the original Stegosaurus posting (Dragon mag v. 318) about it - it used its dorsal plates as defense, and would include any grapple attempt as well.

Wikipedia says that typical pangolin scales are indeed razor-sharp, and although small and made of the same substance as fingernails, it should indeed do pierce or slash damage to anyone who messes with it in this manner. I wish I could give more, but this is as much as I can remember for sure right now. I really did put a lot of thought into the basis of it though - so I am scared to finalize it before Wizards gets their shart back in order around the end of the month (jerks).

However, there is an incredibly long list of animals which need a thorough review by people who know what they're doing (you all).... Just in case putting off Eomanis doesn't feel like a fun option (trust me, I am with you on this one...).

 

[Shade]

xidoraven - We can hold off on eomanis until you can recover your notes. Heck, you requested it, so that's the least we can do.

In the meantime, let's get this one out of the way...

Elephant, Dwarf
CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Subtropical wooded islands
FREQUENCY: Rare
ORGANIZATION: Herd
DIET: Herbivore
NO. APPEARING: 1-20
ARMOR CLASS: 6
MOVEMENT: 12
HIT DICE: 3
THAC0: 17
NO. OF ATTACKS: 2
DAMAGE/ATTACKS: 1-6/1-6
SIZE: S (3.high at shoulder)
MORALE: Unsteady (7)
XP VALUE: 65

While giant versions of many mammals lived in the Cenozoic, this elephant went the opposite route. Inhabiting only isolated wooded islands in the Mediterranean and Java, the dwarf elephant looked much like any other elephant, just smaller.

Combat: The dwarf elephant uses only its tusks in combat, as it is too small to use its feet or trunk.

Habitat/Society: Dwarf elephants live in herds and browse on tree and shrub foliage. In spite of their size, they are used to being the largest creatures on their isolated islands, and no large predators bother them. When confronted by men and other larger creatures, they prefer to run. If sold, the tusks are worth 10-100 gp each. This elephant is the ancestor of the minimal elephants (Monstrous Compendium, “Mammal, Minimal”).

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #167 (1991).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarf_elephant

 

[freyar]

Want to start by downsizing an elephant to Small and 3 HD?

 

[Shade]

Yeah, that seems like a logical start...

Smal Animal
Hit Dice: 3d8 (13 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 14 (+1 size, +1 Dex, +2 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/-2
Attack: Gore +3 melee (1d6)
Full Attack: Gore +3 melee (1d6)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: -
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +4, Will +2
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 12, Con 11, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 7
Skills: Listen +x, Spot +x (5 total ranks)
Feats: Alertness, Endurance, Iron Will, Skill Focus (Listen) [drop two]
Environment: Warm plains
Organization: Solitary or herd (6–30)
Challenge Rating: x
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: x
Level Adjustment: -


Dex actually changed to 16, but that threw off the AC and made little sense for an elephant, even a small one.

 

[Cleon]

Hmm, I'm thinking this one won't take very long. I'm thinking Medium sized rather than Small, and the 3 hit dice is about right. Shrinking down a SRD elephant would probably be a good start:

Dwarf-Elephant
(SRD Elephant shrunk 2 sizes)
Medium Animal
Hit Dice: 3d8+3 (16 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares) [reduced from original's 40 ft.]
Armor Class: 14 (+2 Dex, +2 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+4
Attack: Gore +4 melee (1d8+3)
Full Attack: Slam +4 melee (1d6+2) and 2 stamps -1 melee (1d4+1); or gore +4 melee (1d8+3)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: None [dropped Trample]
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +5, Will +2 [Will +4 if it has Iron Will]
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 7
Skills: 6 [half in Listen, half in Spot for Listen & Spot +4, or +6 if it has Alertness?]
Feats: 2 [Alertness and Iron Will?]
Environment: Warm plains
Organization: [Solitary or herd (2-20)?]
Challenge Rating: [1 or 2?]
Advancement: [4-6 HD (Medium), 7-9 (Large)?]
Level Adjustment: —
​

I'd be tempted to boost its Con a tad, or swap the Dex and Con to Dex 13 & Con 14, so they're tougher than they're agile, but the basics look good.

My preference is for giving it an extra 2 Con, thus:

Medium Animal
Hit Dice: 3d8+6 (19 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 14 (+2 Dex, +2 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+4
Attack: Gore +4 melee (1d8+3)
Full Attack: Slam +4 melee (1d6+2) and 2 stamps -1 melee (1d4+1); or gore +4 melee (1d8+3)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: None
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +2 [Will +4 if it has Iron Will]
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 7
Skills: 6 [Listen +4, Spot +4; or +6 with Alertness?]
Feats: 2 [Alertness, Iron Will?]
Environment: Warm plains
Organization: [Solitary or herd (2-20)?]
Challenge Rating: [1 or 2?]
Advancement: [4-6 HD (Medium), 7-9 (Large)?]
Level Adjustment: —
​

 

[RavinRay]

I agree with Cleon that Medium-size is a better fit; the wyrmling gold dragon pictured next to a humanoid paladin in Draconomicon gives a good gauge of size. And they're found elsewhere as well: California, and in my own backyard (not literally though!).

Anyone remember the minimals from 1e Monster Manual 2? That was a long list of down-scaled animals.

I think dwarf elephants still lived in herds, though not necessarily of the same numbers as their bigger cousins.

 

[Cleon]

I agree with Cleon that Medium-size is a better fit; the wyrmling gold dragon pictured next to a humanoid paladin in Draconomicon gives a good gauge of size. And they're found elsewhere as well: California, and in my own backyard (not literally though!).

Anyone remember the minimals from 1e Monster Manual 2? That was a long list of down-scaled animals.

I think dwarf elephants still lived in herds, though not necessarily of the same numbers as their bigger cousins.

Well they are still the size of a small pony like a Shetland, so probably weighed several hundred pounds. (Their wikipedia entry says the Cyprus variety had an estimated mass of 200 kg, or ~440 pounds). That's definitely Medium and not Small. 2nd edition AD&D tended to crudely assign monster sizes based on longest dimension, ignoring issues of shape & weight.

As for whether they lived in herds or not, I'm unaware of any evidence one way or another, but most elephants are social animals so it seems reasonable. I suggested Herd (2-20) for their non-solitary organization, since the AD&D version had 20 as the maximum no. appearing.

 

[Shade]

Excellent information!

I'm in favor of swapping the Dex and Con to Dex 13 and Con 14 as Cleon suggested.