Converting "Real World" Animals and Vermin

[Cleon]

Added to Homebrews.

I upscaled the Stormwrack stingray's sting attack and poison, and included its Hide bonus on sea floors. I currently kept the manta's ram attack, but I'm not sure we need it with the addition of a sting and bite.

I'm thinking we could leave in the Ram attack, but only so it qualifies for Multiattack...

The current sting isn't very close to the AD&D original, which stuns for 2-8 rounds.

Indeed, the description of it stunning due to "the force of the blow" suggests it's a tail-slap tied to some kind of a Stunning Blow special attack.

I'm also wondering whether the Bite should be the primary attack instead of the Sting/Tail.

 

[freyar]

I read it like the bite should be primary.

Poison is more consistent with similar critters, but I can see the stunning blow angle. Shade, what do you think?

 

[Cleon]

I read it like the bite should be primary.

Same here.

Poison is more consistent with similar critters, but I can see the stunning blow angle. Shade, what do you think?

Maybe a poison that has stunning primary damage and sickening secondary damage?

Anyhow, I'm happy waiting for Shade.

 

[freyar]

Hmm, don't think we've ever done a stunning poison before. That could be fun.

 

[Cleon]

Hmm, don't think we've ever done a stunning poison before. That could be fun.

If it offers fun, we should do it!

 

[freyar]

Poison (Ex): Injury, Fortitude DC 16, initial damage stunned for 1 round, secondary damage sickened for 1 minute. The save DC is Constitution-based.

That might work. Of course, durations can be adjusted.

 

[Cleon]

Poison (Ex): Injury, Fortitude DC 16, initial damage stunned for 1 round, secondary damage sickened for 1 minute. The save DC is Constitution-based.

That might work. Of course, durations can be adjusted.

The stunning should have a multiple round duration if we follow the original, 2d4 rounds to be precise.

Maybe add some Con damage, as the tail did 2-20 damage in the original, considerably more than its bite.

...Although it would be a closer match to give its tail 1.5 Str bonus on damage to match that, since that 2-20 damage was due to the impact of the "stinger", not the "save vs paralysis" venom.

Hmm, should we consider making the venom paralysis instead of stun?

 

[freyar]

What did 1e stunning do compared to the 3.X conditions?

 

[Cleon]

What did 1e stunning do compared to the 3.X conditions?

From what I remember, "stunning" didn't have a formal description in the DMG, but it usually involved the victim being unable to perform any actions for a number of rounds.

Sometimes a monster's description would add some detailed effect to stunning, like a penalty to AC, but it was often pretty vague.

The best idea of the effect probably comes from the PHB spell descriptions. Note that color spray of them refers to power word, stun for the effects of stunning:

Power Word, Stun (7th level Magic-User Spell)
When a power word, stun is uttered, any creature of the magic-user's choice will be stunned - reeling and unable to think coherently or act.

Symbol (9th level Magic-User Spell)
Stunning - One or more creatures whose total hit points do not exceed 160 will be stunned and reeling for 3-12 (3d4) rounds, dropping anything it or they hold in manipulative members.

Color Spray (1st level Illusionist Spell)
and they are stunned (cf. power word, stun, seventh level magic-user spell) for 2 to 8 segments if their level or number of hit dice is 3 or more greater than the spell caster.

 

[freyar]

Pretty similar to 3.X stunning, I guess. Well, a brief paralysis poison would be fairly close to stunning and is more consistent with most monsters. I'm fine with paralysis from the poison and + 1-1/2 Str on the sting damage.