Spelljammer Converting Spelljammer creatures

[Cleon]

All we need to do is give its "Withdraw" SA the property of increasing its NA and DR.

We'll need to modify that ability anyway, because a Gammaroid can move and attack while withdrawn.

How about this. I've changed the name from "Withdraw" to distinguish it from the regular giant turtle version:

Upon reflection, "Withdraw Limbs" is a bit of a misnomer if it pulls in its head too. We could go back to Withdraw - our Golden Ammonite conversion has a Withdraw that's different from the turtle version and grants and AC bonus, so we do have a precedent for changing the text.

Still, the mobility and attack ability is different enough that I think we'd be better off changing the name. How about "retract"?

Something like this (note that I've also tidied up the text of the defensive boni):

Retract (Ex): A gammaroid can pull in its head and limbs to protect its vulnerable areas. While retracted, the gammaroid can still fly, but is unable to use its land or burrow speed. A retracted gammaroid can sense its surroundings normally and attack by ramming or flame shroud, but cannot use its bite or claw attacks. Retracting into its shell grants the gammaroid heavy fortification (100% resistance to critical hits), plus a +X ?? bonus to its natural armor bonus, a +Y ?? bonus to its damage reduction and a +Z ?? bonus to all saving throws.

 

[Arnwyn]

Yeah, I like "retract".

 

[Cleon]

Yeah, I like "retract".

Good, that makes two of us.

I'll add it to the Gammaroid Working Draft, we can argue about the X, Y and Z defense bonus values it grants after we hear from Freyar.

 

[freyar]

I'm fairly happy with Retract. I'd go +20 to AC, but I don't think I'd add anything to DR or really even saves. Maybe a small bonus to Ref with the idea that its more protected from the type of area attacks that Ref saves usually go with.

 

[Cleon]

I'm fairly happy with Retract. I'd go +20 to AC, but I don't think I'd add anything to DR or really even saves. Maybe a small bonus to Ref with the idea that its more protected from the type of area attacks that Ref saves usually go with.

I don't mind making the save bonus Ref only (although prefer the all saves version), but would like to keep the Damage Reduction bonus. It is increasing the effectiveness of its shell armour, which is presumably what was providing the DR in the first place.

Maybe +20 AC, +10 DR and +4 saves (Ref or All)?

 

[Arnwyn]

"Maybe +20 AC, +10 DR and +4 saves (Ref or All)? "

I don't know if the extra DR is really necessary, but I can see Cleon's argument (yeah, the shell is what gives the DR, I'd say).

I'm ambivalent about the saves (though a + to Will would feel... off... to me).

 

[Cleon]

"Maybe +20 AC, +10 DR and +4 saves (Ref or All)? "

I don't know if the extra DR is really necessary, but I can see Cleon's argument (yeah, the shell is what gives the DR, I'd say).

I'm ambivalent about the saves (though a + to Will would feel... off... to me).

As I said earlier, I'd be OK making the save Ref only.

Although I'm sure there's a precedent for a turtle-creature with a bonus to all saves when withdrawn into its shell...

...okay, after considerable rummaging, I was thinking of the Tortle, which has:

"In addition, the tortle gains a +4 bonus to all saving throws, even vs. mental attacks, as the tortle not only receives the full benefit of its massive shell but also marshals all its inner strength for defense."

Mystaran Monstrous Compendium (1994)
​

"When fully withdrawn, a tortle cannot move or attack, but becomes AC 1 and gains a +4 bonus to all saving throws, even against mental attacks (because the tortle gains the benefit of a shell, it marshals all its inner strength for defense)."

Red Steel (1994)
Savage Coast Monstrous Compendium(1996)​

Unfortunately, that's only for 2nd edition AD&D. The BECMI and 3rd edition D&D versions of the Tortle lack that ability, meaning I couldn't find a 3E precedent.

So, how about +20 AC, +10 DR, +4 Ref saves? (or maybe +4 Ref and Fort saves?)

 

[freyar]

I still don't see the logic of increasing DR; pulling back into the shell makes it harder to hit the non-armored parts of the gammaroid but doesn't make those parts tougher. That's what NA and fortification cover. But if you are both for increased DR, I'll go along with it. I still prefer the bonus to Ref saves only.

 

[Cleon]

I still don't see the logic of increasing DR; pulling back into the shell makes it harder to hit the non-armored parts of the gammaroid but doesn't make those parts tougher. That's what NA and fortification cover.

It's not that the non-armoured parts get tougher, it's that an attacker can't target them when the Gammaroid is fully retracted, because it's pulled all its "soft parts" inside the armour of its shell, leaving the attacker no option but to strike bits covered by the tough shell (which has a higher DR).

But if you are both for increased DR, I'll go along with it. I still prefer the bonus to Ref saves only.

Seems we're agreed enough for me to update the Gammaroid Working Draft with a +20 AC, +10 DR, +4 Ref saves version of Retract.

 

[Cleon]

I'm thinking we ought to add another SQ to the Gammaroid, namely:

Spinning Flight (Ex): A gammaroid that has retracted into its shell can spin around with incredible speed while flying. A spinning gammaroid cannot be flanked, and can sense and move in all directions with equal faculty.

We've still got some work to do on the Swallow Whole SQ. Firstly, it needs a gizzard damage, hp & AC. Somewhere in the region of bite damage would do for the former, I guess, and the internal AC works out to be AC 40.

I'm also thinking we might need to fiddle the limit to the number of creatures it can Swallow Whole. Two Colossal creatures that occupy a 30 ft. Space each aren't that big compared to a thousand-foot-long monster.

We've set that it can swallow an object up to 100 ft. across. That Space is 800 squares, or enough for 1600 Medium creatures if they crowd together.

Which suggests "A gammaroid's interior can hold 6 Colossal, 25 Gargantuan, 100 Huge, 400 Large, or 1600 Medium or smaller opponents" for the Swallow Whole.

Once we've agreed on that I suggest we start on the Flame Sheath special attack.