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Converting True Dragons

Cleon

Adventurer
Those first level spells seem fine to me.

Editing Working Spells.

2nd level:
Ahi - aid (on 2 domain lists), fog cloud, gust of wind, hideous laughter, invisibility perhaps.
Rahab - coming up shortly...

Hmm… I'm wondering whether hideous laughter wouldn't fit Rahab better considering he has the Madness domain.

He does have touch of madness from that Domain but that's significantly weaker than hideous laughter - the latter has range, requires no attack roll and forces its target prone.

How about swapping it for, say, glitterdust?

That'd make it aid, fog cloud, glitterdust, gust of wind, invisibility.

For Rahab, I'm thinking blindness, command undead, eagle's splendor, hideous laughter, whispering wind.

I'm thinking he might have a few undead thralls guarding his lair, and he seems the type to enjoy permanently blinding victims out of petty spite. The eagle's splendor is just to compensate a bit for his lower spell DCs.
 

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freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Those sound good to me!

3rd level, then.
Ahi: arcane sight, call lightning, dispel magic, maybe suggestion or hold person or wind wall
Rahab: dispel magic, stinking cloud, vampiric touch, ??
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Those sound good to me!

Editing Working Spells.

3rd level, then.
Ahi: arcane sight, call lightning, dispel magic, maybe suggestion or hold person or wind wall

The problem with call lightning is it doesn't do much damage per bolt. A regular lightning bolt makes more sense. Of your three proposals I'd go for suggestion.

That'd makes it arcane sight, dispel magic, lightning bolt, suggestion.

Rahab: dispel magic, stinking cloud, vampiric touch, ??

I've long had a fondness for the Darkness Domain spell blacklight.

So blacklight, dispel magic, stinking cloud, vampiric touch.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
That will work!

On to 4th level.
Ahi: Holy Smite, Scrying, Solid Fog, ???
Rahab: Charm Monster, Confusion, Crushing Despair (he's supposed to have charmed minions, but he doesn't have general charming abilities, just suggestion)
 


freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I thought about freedom of movement, so that's fine.

On to 5th level, then.
Ahi -- Dispel Evil, Sending, Teleport, maybe prying eyes or wall of force?
Rahab -- Dominate Person, Nightmare

Thoughts?
 

Cleon

Adventurer
I thought about freedom of movement, so that's fine.

Editing Working Spells.

On to 5th level, then.
Ahi -- Dispel Evil, Sending, Teleport, maybe prying eyes or wall of force?
Rahab -- Dominate Person, Nightmare

Thoughts?

Don't much care for sending. Although teleport and wall of force are always good picks, I'm thinking maybe give him greater teleport at 7th level instead.

Maybe break enchantment since that's on the Luck domain list?

Plus an offensive spell like, say, cloudkill or feeblemind?

Let's say feeblemind for the sake of argument.

Ahi 5th-level spells: break enchantment, dispel evil, feeblemind, wall of force

Rahab -- Dominate Person, Nightmare

Those are fine. I like the synergy of Rahab having nightmare while Ahi has the dispel evil that undoes it.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
That all works for me at 5th level.

Ahi at 6th, then. Blade barrier (from the Good domain) maybe. Acid fog or freezing sphere for one option would seem thematically appropriate. True seeing, geas/quest, control water, or greater heroism might be interesting for the last spell.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
That all works for me at 5th level.

Editing Working Spells.

Ahi at 6th, then. Blade barrier (from the Good domain) maybe. Acid fog or freezing sphere for one option would seem thematically appropriate. True seeing, geas/quest, control water, or greater heroism might be interesting for the last spell.

I'm fine with blade barrier which of course belongs on the Good list. What's more benevolent than slicing your enemy to ribbons?

I'm not keen on acid fog or freezing sphere since I consider blade barrier a perfectly adequate offensive spell.

Of the four other options, geas/quest is my favorite.

Maybe mislead, repulsion or true seeing for the remaining one?
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I always did think blade barrier was a funny fit for Good, but I guess it could be use of the spell by good aligned clerics in some older novels.

How about blade barrier, geas/quest, and true seeing?

7th level: greater teleport, spell turning (Luck domain), maybe mass hold person or banishment?
 

Cleon

Adventurer
I always did think blade barrier was a funny fit for Good, but I guess it could be use of the spell by good aligned clerics in some older novels.

How about blade barrier, geas/quest, and true seeing?

Works for me!

7th level: greater teleport, spell turning (Luck domain), maybe mass hold person or banishment?

How about control weather for the third spell? It seems very appropriate thematically.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I thought about control weather, but he already has that 3/day as an SLA, so it seemed a bit redundant. We could do that if you really like, but I think I prefer banishment. Your choice.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
I thought about control weather, but he already has that 3/day as an SLA, so it seemed a bit redundant. We could do that if you really like, but I think I prefer banishment. Your choice.

Dang it, I forgot he had it as an SLA.

Still not that fond of banishment as a sorcerer spell because it's so situationally dependent.

How about limited wish? That's the most versatile 7th level spell!
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Limited wish is also a 3/day SLA. What about mass hold person or greater arcane sight or greater scrying?

At 8th level, how about moment of prescience (it's Luck domain as well as Sor/Wiz) and maybe incendiary cloud as a potent, weather-like spell that's not also an SLA.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Limited wish is also a 3/day SLA. What about mass hold person or greater arcane sight or greater scrying?

Dang it, I done it again! Then again, he's already got regular arcane sight on his spell list so the greater version is surplus to requirements!

Of those options I'd go for mass hold person as being more likely to see use in play.

At 8th level, how about moment of prescience (it's Luck domain as well as Sor/Wiz) and maybe incendiary cloud as a potent, weather-like spell that's not also an SLA.

I like moment of prescience but don't think incendiary cloud is that useful, powerful or flavourful.

The best option among Ahi's Domain spells looks to be holy aura. The other domain option of whirlwind seems a bit weak for an 8th-level spell and it's on the SLA list already as previously established.

Failing that, irresistible dance, mind blank, polymorph any object and protection from spells are all good picks.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Mass hold person for the last 7th level spell it is!

Let's do moment of prescience and holy aura at 8th level. I was going with moment of prescience as the domain spell, but it works just as well as a regular sorceror spell.

Ready for skills and feats?
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Mass hold person for the last 7th level spell it is!

Let's do moment of prescience and holy aura at 8th level. I was going with moment of prescience as the domain spell, but it works just as well as a regular sorceror spell.

Editing Working Spells.

Updating Ahi the Steel Dragon Working Draft.

Ready for skills and feats?

Sure!

I guess the easiest approach is to compare him to his brother, who has:

Rahab's Skills: Concentration, Intimidate, Knowledge (the planes), Listen, Move Silently, Search, Spellcraft (scrolls), Spot, Use Magic Device + (+ scrolls)

Ahi has a lot higher Intelligence so can max-out 16 skills, so how about we give him all of the above plus 7 more.

How about Bluff, Diplomacy, Knowledge (arcane), Knowledge (nature), Hide, Sense Motive and Tumble?

That'd make it:

Ahi's Skills: Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledge (arcane), Knowledge (the planes), Knowledge (nature), Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, Spellcraft (scrolls), Spot, Tumble, Use Magic Device + (+ scrolls)


Rahab's feats offer less inspiration since he's a lot more melee-focused than his brother.

Rahab's Feats: Cleave, Devastating Critical (bite, DC 39), Fast Healing, Great Cleave, Hover, Improved Critical (bite), Improved Initiative, Multiattack, Overwhelming Critical (bite), Power Attack, Snatch, Weapon Focus (bite)

Of those, the only ones I've included in Ahi's stat block are Fast Healing and Improved Initiative. That leaves 10.

Feat 1 & 2 - Fast Healing, Improved Initiative

Feat 3 - Blind-Fight (It'll increase his chances of hitting Rahab through the Grey Dragon's aura of profane darkness aura.

Feat 4 - Multiattack (He's got enough attacks would be useful.)

I reckon most of the rest ought to be spell feats. Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus in a couple of fields plus Quicken SLA and Spell Penetration seems a good basis, which leaves two feats undeclared:

Feat 5 - Quicken Spell-Like Ability (greater dispel magic)
Feat 6 - Spell Penetration
Feat 7 - Spell Focus (Abjuration)
Feat 8 - Greater Spell Focus (Abjuration)
Feat 9 - Spell Focus (Enchantment)
Feat 10 - Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment)
Feat 11 - ???
Feat 12 - ???

What do you reckon?
 
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freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I like your proposed skills.

How about metamagic for the last two? I could see Heightened Spell and Repeat Spell possibly being useful.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
I like your proposed skills.

How about metamagic for the last two? I could see Heightened Spell and Repeat Spell possibly being useful.

Sure, those work for me.

That'd make it:

Ahi's Skills: Balance +4, Bluff +48, Concentration +45, Diplomacy +56, Disguise +10 (+14 act in character), Intimidate +52, Jump +20, Knowledge (arcane) +48, Knowledge (the planes) +48, Knowledge (nature) +48, Hide +22, Listen +48, Move Silently +38, Search +48, Sense Motive +48, Spellcraft +52 (+56 scrolls), Survival +10 (+14 aboveground, +14 on other planes), Spot +48, Tumble +38, Use Magic Device +48 (+52 scrolls)

Ahi's Feats: Blind-Fight, Fast Healing, Heighten Spell, Improved Initiative, Multiattack, Quicken Spell-Like Ability (greater dispel magic), Repeat Spell, Spell Focus (Abjuration), Spell Focus (Enchantment), Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment), Greater Spell Focus (Abjuration)

Updating Ahi the Steel Dragon Working Draft.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Looking good.

Environment: Any land? "A castle floating in the wind" isn't a standard environment type. :p

Any thoughts on tactics? I was going with something like "Ahi uses his gaseous form and ability to control the winds and weather to great effect, preferring to deal with his opponents indirectly when possible." Something simple, like Rahab has.
 

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