Converting True Dragons

Cleon

Adventurer
In that case, I guess we should take a look at those Mystarans!
Fine!

There are four Mystaran Dragon Rules. Diamond the Star Dragon who rules Lawful Dragons, Opal the Sun Dragon who rule Neutral Dragons, Pearl the Moon Dragon who rules Chaotic Dragons and finally The Great Dragon who rules All Dragonkind.

Unless you have any preferences we might as well convert them in that order, which would put Diamond first.

I'll post the original stats shortly.

Come to think of it, most of their original appearances included all four dragons in one 'Dragon Ruler' entry. I'll email you a file with the original 4-dragon entries for comparison purposes.

Agreed with adding the flavor bit about Ahi to Rahab.
Updating Rahab the Grey Dragon.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Dragon Rulers Original Stats

Dragon Ruler
Pearl (The Moon Dragon), Ruler of all Chaotic Dragons*
Armor Class:-8
Hit Dice:24******** (L)
Move:180’(60’)
Flying:420’(140’)
Attacks:Up to 9 (see below)
Damage:See below
Breath:As any chaotic dragon
No. Appearing:1 (unique)
Save As:F36 (see below)
Morale:10 (see below)
Treasure Type:Hx4, Ix3, N, O
Intelligence:18
Alignment:Chaotic
XP Value:25,250
Opal (The Sun Dragon), Ruler of all Neutral Dragons*
Armor Class:-9
Hit Dice:27******** (L)
Move:180’(60’)
Flying:420’(140’)
Attacks:Up to 9 (see below)
Damage:See below
Breath:As any neutral dragon
No. Appearing:1 (unique)
Save As:F36 (see below)
Morale:10 (see below)
Treasure Type:Hx4, Ix3, N, O
Intelligence:18
Alignment:Neutral
XP Value:32,000
Diamond (The Star Dragon), Ruler of all Lawful Dragons*
Armor Class:-10
Hit Dice:30******** (L)
Move:180’(60’)
Flying:420’(140’)
Attacks:Up to 9 (see below)
Damage:See below
Breath:As any lawful dragon
No. Appearing:1 (unique)
Save As:F36 (see below)
Morale:10 (see below)
Treasure Type:Hx4, Ix3, N, O
Intelligence:18
Alignment:Lawful
XP Value:38,750
The Great Dragon, Ruler of All Dragonkind*
Armor Class:-12
Hit Dice:40********* (L)
Move:240’(80’)
Flying:480’(160’)
Attacks:Up to 10 (see below)
Damage:See below
Breath:As any dragon
No. Appearing:1 (unique)
Save As:F36 (see below)
Morale:10 (see below)
Treasure Type:Hx5, Ix4, Nx2, Ox2,
+ special
Intelligence:18
Alignment:Unknown
XP Value:68,000

Monster Type:
Dragon, Planar Monster (Very Rare).

Each of the three Dragon Rulers is the leader of all dragons with the same alignment. These three rulers, in turn, obey the Great One, ruler of all dragons.

Pearl: Rules Chaotic Dragons (Black, Green, Red and Amber)

Opal: Rules Neutral Dragons (White, Onyx, Jade and Blue)

Diamond: Rules Lawful Dragons (Crystal, Sapphire, Ruby and Gold)

These creatures are extremely rare, almost never appearing on the Prime Plane unless there is great need. They are all Immortal. If a dragon ruler's material body is slain, the spirit goes to its home plane (one of the outer planes) and creates a new body.

Each of these dragons is bigger than the biggest gold or amber dragon; in natural form, each is over 100' long.

Pearl, ruler of Chaotic dragons, has scales like mother-of-pearl—white but iridescent, constantly shifting, like her Chaotic nature.

Opal, ruler of Neutral dragons, has scales which are white with thousands of tiny specks of color in all the hues of the rainbow.

Diamond, ruler of Lawful dragons, has scales with the refractive qualities of faceted diamond: They glitter and gleam with so much reflected light that it is hard to stare at this dragon.

The Great One has scales which glow brightly, like the surface of a white sun; no one can stare directly at him except through a darkness spell effect (through which he looks like an enormous three-headed white dragon).

Each ruler is always attended by four of his or her largest, most powerful followers. Pearl is always accompanied by four huge amber dragons, each with 176 hit points. Opal is always with four blue dragons, each with 144 hit points. Diamond is always with four gold dragons, each with 176 hit points. The Great One has a retinue of twelve dragons: four gold, four amber, and four blue, all sufficiently dedicated to serving the Great One that they do not get into fights based on alignment differences. All of these attendants can use spells.

When traveling, the dragon rulers usually bring one of each type of their largest subjects; for example, when on an excursion to the Prime Plane, Diamond brings one ruby dragon (160 hit points), one sapphire dragon (144 hit points), and one crystal dragon (96 hit points), in addition to the usual four gold dragons (176 hit points each).

All dragon rulers are immune to charm, hold, paralysis, slow, death ray, disintegration, and poison. Dragon rulers cannot be subdued or tamed like some lesser dragons.

The three lesser rulers are immune to normal and silvered weapons, to all spells of 6th level or less, and to all weapons of less than + 3 enchantment. The Great One is immune to normal and silvered weapons, clerical/druidic spells of 6th level or less and magical spells of 8th level or less, and weapons of less than +4 enchantment.
All dragon rulers are immune to all dragon breath weapons and are unaffected by dragon control magical items.

A dragon ruler can polymorph itself at will into the form of any of its follower dragons. Each ruler has a spell book containing all of the known spells, but must study and learn them just as a normal magic-user. Clerical spells are gained with the usual amount of meditation.

Each dragon ruler can use any breath weapon of its followers, each once per day, and while in either normal or polymorphed (to a lesser dragon) form. For example, Opal can breathe a cone of cold (as a white), line of acid-and-darkness (as an onyx), cloud of gas-and-disease (as a jade), or a lightning bolt (as a blue), for a total of four breaths per day. Each dragon ruler can attack up to nine times per round (with two bites, two claws, two wings, two kicks, and two tail).

The Great One can use any breath weapon of any dragon, each once per day, and while in either normal or polymorphed form. He has up to 10 attacks, using the tail twice.

The lair treasures of the dragon rulers always include at least three miscellaneous magical items usable by dragons; these items may be used against invaders, as appropriate. The Great One, in addition, owns one artifact. (The specific artifact is the DM's choice, but the artifact is not ultimately fatal to the dragon ruler, nor does it involve undead in any way.)
The Dragon Rulers act as leaders for all dragonkind. They arbitrate disputes between clans of dragons and occasionally—very occasionally—act on the behalf of lesser dragons against other species. They do not intercede when a party of heroes destroys a rogue dragon, but will act when a clan of dragons faces extinction or enslavement.

The three lesser rulers of dragonkind do not like or cooperate with each other, but neither do they fight each other. The Great One treats them equally, without a favorite. The origins of the rulers are unknown, but the lesser rulers may be the offspring of The Great One.

Terrain: Outer Plane (their own).

Load: Full speed when carrying 1,000 cn x HD in encumbrance; half speed when carrying 2,000 cn x HD in encumbrance.

Originally from Dungeons & Dragons Rules Cyclopedia (1991).


Dragon Ruler
Dragon
Pearl*
Opal*
Diamond*
The Great One*
RulersMoon Dragon
Sun Dragon
Star DragonRuler of All
Armor Class:-8
-9
-10-12
Hit Dice:24********27********30********40*********
Move:180′ (60′)180′ (60′)180′ (60′)240′ (80′)
Flying:420′ (140′)420′ (140′)420′ (140′)480 (160)
Attacks:Up to 9Up to 9Up to 9Up to 10
Breath Size:Cha. dragons
Neu. dragons
Law. dragonsAny dragons
Damage:(see chart)
(see chart)(see chart)(see chart)
# Appearing:1 (unique)1 (unique)1 (unique)1 (unique)
Save As:Fighter: 36Fighter: 36Fighter: 36Fighter: 36
Morale:10
10
1010
Treasure Type:H×4, 1×3, N, OH×4, 1×3, N, OH×4, 1×3, N, OH×5, 1×4, N×2,
O×2, + special
Alignment:Chaotic
Neutral
LawfulUnknown
XP Value:n/a
n/a
n/a
n/a
XP with spells:25,250
32,000
38,750
68,000

Immune to: charm, hold, paralysis, slow, death ray, disintegration, poison, all dragon control devices, non-magical & silvered weapons.
Great One is also immune to spell levels 1-6 & magical weapons less than +3.

DAMAGES:
Types & Sizes of Dragons
Bite or
Crush
Claws
Kicks, Wings,
and Tail
Breath
Pearl
(Moon)
6d6
2d8 each
Up to 192 hp
Opal
(Sun)
6d6 + 4
2d8 + 2 each
Up to 214 hp
Diamond
(Star)6d6 + 8
2d8 + 4 each
Up to 249 hp
The Great One

6d10
3d10
Up to 320 hp

Types of
Dragons
Usual Habitat
where found
Breath Weapon
and Shape
Chance
Talking
Chance
Asleep

Pearl
Outer PlanesAs chaotic drag.
100%1%
Opal
Outer PlanesAs neutral drag.
100%
1%
Diamond
Outer Planes
As lawful drag.100%
1%
The Great One
Outer Planes
As any dragon
100%
1%

Dragon Statistics for Encounters
Opal
Number 1
Armor Class –9
Hit Dice 27
Hit Points 216
Move 180′(60′)
Flying 420′(120′)
Attacks up to 9
Damage see below
Breath As any neutral dragon
Save As F 36
Morale 10
Alignment Neutral
XP Value 32,000
Spells
First 7
Second 6
Third 5
Fourth 4
Fifth 3
Sixth 2
Seventh 1
Attack Damage
Bite/Crush 6d8 + 4
All Others 2d8 + 2

Originally from AC10 - Bestiary of Dragons and Giants (1987)
.


Dragon Ruler
Pearl (The Moon Dragon), Ruler of all Chaotic Dragons*
Armor Class:-8
Hit Dice:24********
Move:180’(60’)
Flying:420’(140’)
Attacks:Up to 9 (see below)
Damage:See below
Breath:As any chaotic dragon
No. Appearing:1 (unique)
Save As:Fighter: 36 (see below)
Morale:10 (see below)
Treasure Type:Hx4, Ix3, N, O
Alignment:Chaotic
XP Value:25,250
Opal (The Sun Dragon), Ruler of all Neutral Dragons*
Armor Class:-9
Hit Dice:27********
Move:180’(60’)
Flying:420’(140’)
Attacks:Up to 9 (see below)
Damage:See below
Breath:As any neutral dragon
No. Appearing:1 (unique)
Save As:Fighter: 36 (see below)
Morale:10 (see below)
Treasure Type:Hx4, Ix3, N, O
Intelligence:18
Alignment:Neutral
XP Value:32,000
Diamond (The Star Dragon), Ruler of all Lawful Dragons*
Armor Class:-10
Hit Dice:30********
Move:180’(60’)
Flying:420’(140’)
Attacks:Up to 9 (see below)
Damage:See below
Breath:As any lawful dragon
No. Appearing:1 (unique)
Save As:Fighter: 36 (see below)
Morale:10 (see below)
Treasure Type:Hx4, Ix3, N, 0
Alignment:Lawful
XP Value:38,750
The Great Dragon, Ruler of All Dragonkind*
Armor Class:-12
Hit Dice:40*********
Move:240’(80’)
Flying:480’(160’)
Attacks:Up to 10 (see below)
Damage:See below
Breath:As any dragon
No. Appearing:1 (unique)
Save As:Fighter: 36 (see below)
Morale:10 (see below)
Treasure Type:Hx5, Ix4, Nx2, Ox2, + special
Alignment:Unknown
XP Value:68,000



Attacks and Damages
(with dice used)
Bite or CrushClaws, Kicks, Wings,
and Tail
6d82d8 each
6d8 + 42d8 + 2 each
Diamond (Star)6d8 + 82d8 + 4 each
The Great One6d103d10
SPELLS (by level)—both types (CL and MU)
1234567
Each of the 3
lesser rulers
7654321
The Great One9876543

These creatures are extremely rare, almost never appearing on the Prime Plane unless there is great need. They are all Immortal. If a dragon ruler’s material body is slain, the spirit goes to its home plane (one of the Outer Planes) and creates a new body.

Each ruler is always attended by four of their largest, most powerful followers. Pearl is always accompanied by four huge brown dragons, each with 176 hit points. Opal is always with four blue dragons, each with 144 hit points. Diamond is always with four gold dragons, each with 176 hit points. All of these attendants can use spells. The dragon ruler often relaxes in the same form as its attendants, to confuse magical scrying or possible intruders.

When traveling, the dragon rulers usually bring 1 of each type of their largest subjects; for example, when on an excursion to the Prime Plane, Diamond brings 1 ruby dragon (hp 160), 1 sapphire dragon (hp 144), and 1 crystal dragon (hp 96), in addition to the usual 4 gold dragons (hp 176 each). Of course, all the dragon rulers travel in the same form as one of their attendants.

All dragon rulers are immune to charm, hold, paralysis, slow, death ray, disintegration, and poison. The three lesser rulers are immune to normal and silvered weapons, and to all spells of 3rd level or less. The Great Dragon is immune to all spells of 6th level or less, and to all weapons of less than + 3 enchantment. All dragon rulers are immune to all other dragon breath weapons of all types and are unaffected by dragon control magic items.

A dragon ruler can polymorph itself at will into the form of any of its follower dragons. Each ruler has a spell book containing all of the known spells, but must study and learn them just as a normal magic-user. Cleric spells are gained with the usual amount of meditation. The information on the spell chart applies to both cleric and magic-user spells.

Each dragon ruler can use any breath weapon of its followers, each once per day, and while in either normal or polymorphed (to a lesser dragon) form. For example, Opal can breathe a cone of cold (as a white), line of acid-and-darkness (as an onyx), cloud of gas-and-disease (as a jade), or a lightning bolt (as a blue), for a total of 4 breaths per day. Each dragon ruler can attack up to nine times per round (with 2 bites, 2 claws, 2 wings, 2 kicks, and 1 tail), maneuvering very quickly. The Great One has up to 10 attacks, using the tail twice.

The lair treasures of the dragon rulers always include at least 3 miscellaneous magic items usable by dragons; these items may be used against invaders, as appropriate. The Great Dragon owns 1 artifact in addition. (DM’s choice, but the artifact is not ultimately fatal to the dragon ruler, nor does it involve undead in any way.)

The 3 lesser rulers of dragonkind do not like or cooperate with each other, but neither do they fight each other. The Great Dragon treats them equally, without a favorite. The origins of the rulers are unknown, but the lesser rulers may be the offspring of The Great One.

Originally appeared in D&D Master Set (Mentzer, 1985).
 
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Cleon

Adventurer
Upon reflection, it's easier if I put the original stats for all four dragons Dragon Rulers in one post.

Editing Dragon Ruler Original Stats.

Note: Just as well I did that, since I noticed a few OCR typos in the stats. Nothing insufferable though - 1s instead if Is or 0s instead of Os and the like.
 
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Cleon

Adventurer
Anyhow, now I've typed out the stats I realize the original is clearly presented in the ascending order Chaotic => Neutral => Lawful => Great One rather than alphabetically Diamond>Moon>Pearl>The Great Dragon.

So I guess we should do the Chaotic Pearl Dragon first?

Strengthwise I guess we should aim for something on par with Tiamat (and Bahamut for the Star Dragon), with the Great One being even stronger.

I guess we could use the Manual of the Planes / Dragon #272 3E version of Tiamat as a benchmark for its strength?
 

Cleon

Adventurer
I did quite a bit of fiddling with the tables and got them slightly more legible.

That'll do for today. . .
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Wow, that's a lot to parse!

How about we settle a common thing or two before we get to the first one?

For example, I'd be in favor of the usual 1d4 round wait period for the breath weapon with no per day restriction and giving each of them multiple types of breath weapon. Would you agree?
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Wow, that's a lot to parse!

How about we settle a common thing or two before we get to the first one?

For example, I'd be in favor of the usual 1d4 round wait period for the breath weapon with no per day restriction and giving each of them multiple types of breath weapon. Would you agree?
Hmm… these are epic level beasties so I'd be fine making their breath weapon a bit faster. How can the PCs "enjoy" all the many breath weapon options available to their dragon opponent if the poor thing only has time to use it a couple of times?

Granted, the official 3E version of Bahamut is stuck with the 1d4 rounds restriction as you described, which always seemed a bit unfair when Tiamat's 1d4 round restriction only applies to each head and each head can breath separately as a standard action - so in effect she's got five parallel breath weapons.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Well, I'm fine with speeding it up. I just didn't like the daily use restriction. What about every 1d2 rounds?

All dragon rulers are immune to charm, hold, paralysis, slow, death ray, disintegration, and poison. Dragon rulers cannot be subdued or tamed like some lesser dragons.

The three lesser rulers are immune to normal and silvered weapons, to all spells of 6th level or less, and to all weapons of less than + 3 enchantment. The Great One is immune to normal and silvered weapons, clerical/druidic spells of 6th level or less and magical spells of 8th level or less, and weapons of less than +4 enchantment.
All dragon rulers are immune to all dragon breath weapons and are unaffected by dragon control magical items.

A dragon ruler can polymorph itself at will into the form of any of its follower dragons. Each ruler has a spell book containing all of the known spells, but must study and learn them just as a normal magic-user. Clerical spells are gained with the usual amount of meditation.
This seems to be the same for all three versions. Immunity to paralysis (and I'd add sleep as true dragons) and poison, plus a list of spells. I'd extend the charm immunity to all charm effects, I guess. Then immunity to all dragon breath weapons and control (covered by charm effects?). DR/epic, would you agree? I'd go with Alternate Form but modified to allow them to keep breath weapons. And they seem to cast cleric spells as arcane spells.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Well, I'm fine with speeding it up. I just didn't like the daily use restriction. What about every 1d2 rounds?
I would have gone for every round but will accept every 1d2 rounds.

Daily use restrictions were a standard feature of BECMI/1E dragons that 3E dropped entirely in favour of the "every X rounds" frequency.

I was thinking the dragon would be able to use the breath weapons of every dragon of its "class" but once it had used a particular dragon's breath weapon it couldn't use it again for, say, a minute.

We ought to provide a list of the breath weapons of the "standard" and Mystaran dragons of its alignment for the sake of convenience. In some cases it will have multiple dragons who breathe the same energy type (i.e. the Brass Dragon, Mystaran Amber Dragon and Red Dragon are all chaotic and can breathe fire), so the chaotic dragon could breathe fire three times in a minute.

We'll need to decide on what to use as the Neutral Dragons - in BECMI the Blue and White Dragons are neutral so I suppose we could do something with that with a note of "These dragons are identical to the SRD versions except the Mystaran blue dragon's alignment is always lawful neutral and the Mystaran white dragon is always chaotic neutral".

I'd be more inclined to use either the "Dragon, Neutrals" who appeared in various AD&D 2E Monstrous Compendiums of the Gem Dragons from AD&D's Dragon #37 and the 3E Monster Manual II (who were originally invented to fill the "Neutral Dragons" hole).

I'm inclined towards the MCA Neutral Dragons since (a) we have those in the CC and (b) the Gem Dragons are psionic casters.

That would make the dragon list as follows:

Chaotic Dragons: SRD's Black, Brass, Copper, Red, White and BECMI's Mystaran Amber, Brown.

Neutral Dragons: BECMI's Mystaran Jade, Mystaran Onyx plus others to be determined (Neutral's Amber, Jacinth, Jade (Pearl), Moonstone, Pearl OR Gem's Amethyst, Crystal, Emerald, Sapphire, Topaz)

Lawful Dragons: SRD's Blue, Bronze, Green, Gold, Silver and BECMI's Mystaran Crystalline Dragon, Mystaran Ruby, Mystaran Sapphire.

That's seven Chaotic Dragons, seven Neutral Dragons and eight Lawful Dragons. If the frequency rate is once every 1d2 rounds that's enough for them to be very unlikely to run out of options if they have a "wait a minute" refresh rate.

This seems to be the same for all three versions. Immunity to paralysis (and I'd add sleep as true dragons) and poison, plus a list of spells. I'd extend the charm immunity to all charm effects, I guess. Then immunity to all dragon breath weapons and control (covered by charm effects?). DR/epic, would you agree? I'd go with Alternate Form but modified to allow them to keep breath weapons. And they seem to cast cleric spells as arcane spells.
Most of that seems reasonable, with the following exceptions.

I'd give them sorcerer casting AND cleric casting since the official 3E versions of Bahamut Tiamat have that:

Manual of the Planes said:
Spells: Bahamut is a 20th-level sorcerer and a 20th-level cleric with access to the Good and Air domains. (Bahamut also gains the granted powers associated with those domains.) In his natural form, Bahamut can cast his spells with but a word.

Spells: Tiamat is a 20th-level sorcerer and a 20th-level cleric with access to the Evil and Law domains. (Tiamat also gains the granted powers associated with those domains.) In her natural form, Tiamat can cast her spells with but a word.
The immunity to dragon control magical items is presumably a reference to things like the Orbs of Dragonkind.

I'm inclined to generalize the immunities to all charm, hold, paralysis, sleep, slow, death, disintegration, and poison effects.

Incidentally, I was tempted to suggest generalizing the sleep and hold immunity to immunity to compulsion effects, i.e. antipathy, binding, confusion, crushing despair, daze, demand, dominate, feeblemind, geas, heroism, hideous laughter, hold, hypnotism, insanity, irresistible dance, mind fog, power word (blind, kill, stun), rage, sleep, suggestion, symbol (insanity, sleep, stunning or persuasion), sympathy, touch of idiocy. However, if we go that far it's almost the same as making it immune to enchantment or mind-affecting effects so I decided that was going a bit far. Although perhaps we could reserve immunity to compulsion/enchantment/mind-affecting for the Supreme Dragon?
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
We can do every round if you want, but some kind of recharge time just seems right. I'd lean slightly toward 1d2 rounds. I don't mind much one way or the other about a per minute refresh for each breath weapon.

I can go along with your dragon lists, using the MCA Neutral Dragons you have in green there.

Sorcerer and cleric casting is ok by me. We'll have to choose some domains, though I guess Chaos and Law are a couple of obvious choices.

I would go with immunities to all charm, hold, paralysis, sleep, slow, death, disintegration, and poison effects. But we should also include immunity to compulsions (any mind-affecting?) that specifically affect dragons.

Total immunity to mind-affecting or enchantment might be good for the Supreme Dragon, yes.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
We can do every round if you want, but some kind of recharge time just seems right. I'd lean slightly toward 1d2 rounds. I don't mind much one way or the other about a per minute refresh for each breath weapon.
How about we give the three Aligned Dragon Rulers 1d2 recharge plus 1 minute refresh and the Supreme Dragon Ruler the breathe-every-round plus 1 minute refresh?

I can go along with your dragon lists, using the MCA Neutral Dragons you have in green there.
Suits me.

Sorcerer and cleric casting is ok by me. We'll have to choose some domains, though I guess Chaos and Law are a couple of obvious choices.
We could just give them a selection of the domains their "subservient dragons" can access. Or maybe ALL of their domains?

I would go with immunities to all charm, hold, paralysis, sleep, slow, death, disintegration, and poison effects. But we should also include immunity to compulsions (any mind-affecting?) that specifically affect dragons.
Yes, that suits me.

Although the original wording is the rather odd "unaffected by dragon control magical items" which implies non-magic item dragon control methods work. Like, say, an Undead Dragon Slayer using Enchant Dragon on a charm person spell.

Total immunity to mind-affecting or enchantment might be good for the Supreme Dragon, yes.
Agreed.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
So shall we get started on the first one: Pearl the Moon Dragon.

Colossal Dragon (Chaotic, Extraplanar) seems pretty obvious.

Double the original 24 Hit Dice to 48 to put her in the same region as 49 HD of the 3E Manual of the Plane's Tiamat? Maybe just add 24 HD to the other Mystaran Dragon Rulers when we get around to them, then the Diamond the Star Dragon will have 54 Hit Dice, which is close to the MoP's Bahamut's who has 53 HD. Oh, and it'll give 51 Hit Dice to Opal the Sun Dragon which puts her close to the WotC Sardior's 52 HD.

That seems a decent match.

As for Armour Class, Pearl has AC –8. The various BECMI/AD&D versions of Tiamat have from AC 0 (Monster Manual) to AC –15 (Polyhedron #73). The latter also has 60 Hit Dice (!).

The 3E MotP Tiamat has AC 50 (touch 2, flat-footed 50) so seems to just have natural armour +48.

It'd be simplest to just to give Moon the same +48NA but I'm tempted to give her +40 NA and +8 from some other source, like a high Dexterity, deflection, insight, or a divine rank bonus.

Checking the 3E Sardior, he has Armor Class 75 (-8 size, +6 Dex, +8 divine, +48 natural, +11 deflection); touch 27; flat-footed 69 which seems a bit overboard.

We are aiming for a version without divine ranks aren't we, to keep it par with the Manual of the Planes Bahamut and Tiamat stats?

The Aligned Dragon Rulers have an impressive 180' land speed and fly at 420', so I'd go for 60 ft., fly 300 ft. (poor) like the MotP Bahamut.

Ability scores I'm not so certain of. Similar dragons have:

Bahamut: Str 53, Dex 10, Con 39, Int 35, Wis 36, Cha 35
Tiamat: Str 49, Dex 10, Con 35, Int 28, Wis 25, Cha 28
Sardior: Str 49, Dex 22, Con 37, Int 33, Wis 34, Cha 33

Hurr… Perhaps Str 48, Dex 10, Con 35, Int 31, Wis 32, Cha 31?

I think that's all we need to decide before I post a Working Draft.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Good on 1d2 round recharge and 1 minute refresh per breath. Also to ALL domains. :devil:

Since the undead dragon slayer didn't exist until 9 years after these came out first, I'd say the spirit of the original rule was to make them immune to any kind of magical control that specifically targets dragons, if that's ok with you.

No divine ranks. I like adding 24HD, so 48HD for Pearl. +40 NA and +8 AC from something else (or in that neighborhood) seems good to me. Speeds like Bahamut sound good. Your proposed abilities are good too. Let's get that working draft!
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Dragon Ruler, Pearl the Moon Dragon Working Draft

Pearl, the Moon Dragon
Colossal Dragon (Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 48d12+576 (888 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 60 ft., fly 300 ft. (poor), swim 60 ft., burrow 30 ft.
Armor Class: 50 (–8 size, +38 natural, +10 insight), touch 12, flat-footed 50
Base Attack/Grapple: +48/+83
Attack: Bite +59 melee (4d8+19)
Full Attack: Bite +59 melee (4d8+19) and 2 claws +54 melee (4d6+9) and 2 wings +54 melee (2d8+9) and tail slap +54 melee (4d6+28)
Space/Reach: 30 ft./20 ft. (30 ft. with bite)
Special Attacks: Breath weapon, charm reptiles, corrupt water, crush 4d8+28, freezing fog, frightful presence, spell-like abilities, spells, summon djinni, tail sweep 2d8+28
Special Qualities: Alternate form, blindsense 60 ft., damage reduction 15/epic or lawful, darkvision 1,600 ft., detect gems, immunities (to acid, breath weapons, charm, cold, death, disintegration, electricity, fire, hold, paralysis, luck bonus, sleep, slow, spells up to 6th level, and poison), keen senses, see invisibility, spell resistance 30, spider climb, water breathing
Saves: Fort +38, Ref +26, Will +37
Abilities: Str 48, Dex 10, Con 35, Int 31, Wis 31, Cha 32
Skills: 16 @ 51?
Feats: 17?
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 25
Treasure: Triple standard??
Alignment: Chaotic evil or chaotic neutral??
Advancement: —
Level Adjustment: —

Description.

(amber, black, brass, copper, amber, red and white dragons)

Pearl is ??? feet long weighs ??? tons.

Pearl speaks ???.

Combat
.

Alternate Form (Su): Pearl can assume any animal or humanoid form of Huge size or smaller as a standard action. She can also assume the form of any of the chaotic dragon varieties she rules over of any age category from wyrmling to great wyrm. The Moon Dragon can remain in an alternate form until she chooses to assume a new one or return to her natural form.

Breath Weapon (Su): Pearl has the breath weapons of a black dragon, brass dragon, copper dragon, Mystaran amber dragon, red dragon and white dragon. She uses her breath weapons as a standard action. Once she uses a breath weapon, Pearl can't breath again until 1d2 rounds later.

If the campaign includes other species of dragon with an "always chaotic" alignment (such as the mustard dragon or tourmaline dragon) Pearl may be able to use their breath weapons too.

Once Pearl uses a breath weapon, she can't use that specific breath weapon again until 10 rounds have passed. She may still use a different dragon's breath weapon that has the same effect. For example, Pearl can use her black dragon line of acid breath weapon and then use copper dragon line of acid breath 1d2 rounds later, but would have to wait 10 rounds before using her black dragon breath weapon again.

Details of the Moon Dragon's breath weapons are as follows:

DragonBreath WeaponShapeDamage/Effect
Amberjade-green gas80 ft. cone24d12 acid
plus 1d8/4d6 jade curse*
ruby-red flames80 ft. cone24d12 fire
plus 4d6/4d6 ruby curse*
Blackacid140 ft. line24d12 acid
Brassflames140 ft. line24d12 fire
sleep gas80 ft. conesleep for 1d6+12 rounds
Copperacid140 ft. line24d12 acid
slow gas80 ft. coneslowed for 1d6+12 rounds
Redflames80 ft. cone24d12 fire
Whitefrost80 ft. cone24d12 cold


Targets exposed to the Star Dragon's breath weapons can attempt DC 46 Reflex saves to take half damage.

*If they fail their Reflex save against one of her Mystaran amber dragon breath weapons, they must also attempt a DC 46 Fortitude save or contract a supernatural curse carried by the breath weapon, as follows.

Jade Curse: Objects and creatures affected by this curse begin to rot away. The jade breath curse does not affect anything made of metal or targets with a hardness of 10 or more. Creatures vulnerable to ability damage take 1d8 Constitution damage every minute, while targets immune to ability damage take 4d6 typeless damage every minute instead. Targets with immunity to disease take half damage. Damage caused by the jade curse cannot be repaired or healed until the curse is neutralized by any effect that cures disease, such as remove disease or heal.

Ruby Curse: This curse is harmless to creatures, but objects affected by it begin to melt away. Anything affected by the curse takes 4d6 fire damage plus 4d6 typeless damage every round.

The save DCs are Constitution-based.

Charm Reptiles (Sp): Pearl can use this ability three times per day. It works as a mass charm spell that affects only reptilian animals. The Moon Dragon can communicate with any charmed reptiles as though casting a speak with animals spell. This ability is the equivalent of a 1st-level spell.

Corrupt Water (Sp): Once per day Pearl can stagnate 10 cubic feet of water, making it become still, foul, and unable to support animal life. The ability spoils liquids containing water. Magic items (such as potions) and items in a creature’s possession must succeed on a Will save (DC equal to that of the dragon’s frightful presence) or become fouled. This ability is the equivalent of a 1st-level spell. Its range is equal to that of the dragon’s frightful presence.

Crush (Ex): When flying, Pearl can land on opponents three or more sizes smaller than herself as a standard action, using his whole body to crush them. A crush attack affects as many creatures as can fit under Pearl's body. Each creature in the affected area must succeed on a DC 63 Reflex save or be pinned, automatically taking 4d8+28 points of bludgeoning damage. The save DC is Constitution-based. Thereafter, if Pearl chooses to maintain the pin, treat it as a normal grapple attack. While pinned, the opponent takes crush damage each round.

Detect Gems (Sp): Pearl can use this ability three times per day. This is a divination effect similar to a detect magic spell, except that it finds only gems. The Moon Dragon can scan a 60-degree arc each round: By concentrating for 1 round it knows if there are any gems within the arc; 2 rounds of concentration reveal the exact number of gems; and 3 rounds reveal their exact location, type, and value. This ability is the equivalent of a 2nd-level spell.

Freezing Fog (Sp): Pearl can use this ability three times per day. It is similar to a solid fog spell but also causes a rime of slippery ice to form on any surface the fog touches, creating the effect of a grease spell. The Moon dragon is immune to the grease effect because of her spider climb ability. This ability is the equivalent of a 5th-level spell.

Frightful Presence (Ex): Pearl can unsettle foes with his mere presence. The power takes effect automatically whenever Pearl attacks, charges, or flies overhead. Creatures within a radius of 360 feet are subject to the effect if they have fewer than 48 Hit Dice. An affected creature can resist the effects by making a Will save (DC 44). A successful saving throw makes a creature immune to Pearl's frightful presence for one day. Creatures with 4 Hit Dice or fewer become panicked for 4d6 rounds if they fail their saving throws. Creatures with 5 or more Hit Dice become shaken for 4d6 rounds if they fail their saving throws. Dragons ignore the effects of Pearl's frightful presence. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Icewalking (Ex): This ability works like the spider climb spell, but the surfaces the Moon Dragon climbs must be icy. It is always in effect.

Immunities (Ex): Pearl is immune to acid, breath weapons, charm, cold, death, disintegration, electricity, fire, hold, paralysis, sleep, slow, and poison effects. Pearl ignores the effects of spells and spell-like abilities of 6th level or less, just as if the spellcaster had failed to overcome the Moon Dragon's spell resistance.

Keen Senses (Ex): Pearl sees four times as well a human in shadowy illumination and twice as well in normal light. He also has darkvision out to 120 feet.

See Invisibility (Ex): Pearl has the extraordinary ability to see invisible creatures. This works like the see invisibility spell with a range of 1,600 feet. This power is always active.

Luck Bonus (Sp): Once per day Pearl can touch a gem, usually one embedded in the dragon’s hide, and enspell it to bring good luck. As long as the Moon Dragon carries the gem, it and every chaotic creature in a 10-foot radius per age category of the dragon receives a +1 luck bonus on all saving throws and similar rolls, as for a stone of good luck. If Pearl gives an enspelled gem to another creature, only that bearer gets the bonus. The effect lasts 1d3+?? hours but ends if the gem is destroyed. This ability is the equivalent of a 2nd-level spell.

Spell-Like Abilities: At will—locate object, protection from law (DC 22), speak with animals; 4/day—suggestion (DC 24); 3/day—darkness (radius 200 ft.), endure elements (radius 200 ft.)(DC 22), fog cloud, gust of wind, insect plague, wall of ice (DC 25); 2/day—control weather, stone shape; 1/day—control winds (DC 26), discern location, disintegrate (DC 27), find the path (DC 27), mass charm monster (DC 29), foresight (DC 30), move earth, plant growth, transmute rock to mud or mud to rock (DC 26), wall of stone (DC 26). Caster level 20th. The save DCs are Charisma-based.

Spells: Pearl is a 20th-level sorcerer and a 20th-level cleric. She can also cast cleric spells and spells from cleric domains as arcane spells. Pearl has access to all the domains available to the chaotic dragons she rules (For the amber, black, brass, copper, amber, red and white dragons, these are Chaos, Destruction, Earth, Evil, Fire, Knowledge, Luck and Trickery). In her natural form, Pearl can cast her spells with but a word.

Sorcerer Spells Known: (6/9/9/9/8/8/8/8/7/7; save DC 21 + spell level):
0—arcane mark, dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound, mage hand, message, prestidigitation, read magic, resistance;
1st—mage armor, ray of enfeeblement, shield, true strike, unseen servant;
2nd—blindness/deafness, cat's grace, detect thoughts, hideous laughter, mirror image;
3rd—arcane sight, displacement, haste, major image;
4th—black tentacles, crushing despair, dimensional anchor, greater invisibility;
5th—feeblemind, mind fog, mirage arcana, wall of force;
6th—one, two, three;
7th—one, two, three;
8th—one, two, three;
9th—one, two, three.

Typical Cleric Spells Prepared: (6/8+1/8+1/7+1/7+1/7+1/6+1/5+1/5+1/5+1; save DC 20 + spell level):
0—one, two, three, four, five, six;
1st—one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine;
2nd—one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine;
3rd—one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight;
4th—one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight;
5th—one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight;
6th—one, two, three, four, five, six, seven;
7th—one, two, three, four, five, six;
8th—one, two, three, four, five, six;
9th—one, two, three, four, five, six.

Summon Djinni (Sp): This ability, usable once per day, works like a summon monster spell, except that it summons one djinni. This ability is the equivalent of a 7th-level spell.

Spider Climb (Ex): Pearl can climb on vertical surfaces and ceilings as though using the spider climb spell. This ability also renders Pearl immune to grease effects such as that left by her freezing fog spell-like ability.

Water Breathing (Ex): The Moon Dragon can breathe underwater indefinitely and can freely use her breath weapon, spells, and other abilities while submerged.

Originally appeared in D&D Master Rules (1985).
 
Last edited:

Cleon

Adventurer
I wasn't 100% sure of the wording for the "wait 1 minute before reusing a breath weapon" bit so the Working Draft includes an alternative version.

I included a rough draft of an Alternate Form ability and added "greater spell invulnerability" for the immunity to 0-6th level spells, but notice the 3E Manual of the Planes has something similar in his immunities:

Immunities (Ex): Bahamut is immune to acid, cold, electricity, fire poison, sleep, and paralysis effects. Bahamut ignores the effects of spells and spell-like abilities of 5th level or less, just as if the spellcaster had failed to overcome Bahamut’s spell resistance.

Perhaps use that wording instead, except "6th level or less"?

While whipping up the stats, I also remembered a few things worth adding.

Shouldn't this dragon have a Swim Speed and water breathing (of the "can breathe underwater indefinitely and can freely use its breath weapon, spells, and other abilities while submerged" variety?

Bahamut, Gold and White Dragons have Swim 60 ft. with their water breathing, so that'll probably do.

We could also give her a Burrow speed of 30 ft. like the Brass Dragon and White Dragon.

Are we giving her see invisibility like the MotP Bahamut?

See Invisibility (Ex): Bahamut has the extraordinary ability to see invisible creatures. This works like the see invisibility spell with a range of 1,600 feet. This power is always active.

Bahamut also has 1,600 ft. darkvision (!) so I guess the Dragon Rulers should too.

The original text for the Dragon Rulers says "Each ruler has a spell book containing all of the known spells, but must study and learn them just as a normal magic-user. Clerical spells are gained with the usual amount of meditation". Should we change their sorcerer spell casting to wizard?
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Armor Class: 50 (–8 size, +40 natural, +8 ??), touch 10, flat-footed 50
Any preferences for the type of the +8 armour bonus? I was leaning towards deflection.

Special Qualities: *SNIP*, damage reduction ??/??
Bahamut has 15/epic and evil so I think 15/epic and lawful would be appropriate.

Abilities: Str 48, Dex 10, Con 35, Int 31, Wis 32, Cha 31
Upon reflection, it feels a bit off having Wisdom be Pearl's highest mental stat. Chaotic creatures are not known for their Wisdom.

How about swapping her Wisdom and Charisma to make it Str 48, Dex 10, Con 35, Int 31, Wis 31, Cha 32?
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Bahamut has 15/epic and evil so I think 15/epic and lawful would be appropriate.
Upon reexamining the MotP update, it says Bahamut's DR is "15/epic evil" so it could be "epic or evil" or "epic and evil".

I'm now leaning towards "DR 15/epic or lawful" for Pearl, with "DR 15/epic or chaotic" for Diamond, "DR 15/epic or chaotic or lawful" for Opal and "DR 20/epic" for The Star Dragon.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Answering in no particular order: :p

I think version 1 is good for the breath weapon "reset" times.

I can go for "epic or alignment" for the DR on these, as you suggest.

How about any creature of Large size or smaller for Alternate Form?

Bahamut-style immunities will work.

Swim and burrow speeds are good, too. Plus the long-range darkvision and see invisibility. That all seems reasonable.

Didn't dragons back then generally cast as wizards, though? Assuming that's the case, I'd rather update these to 3.X and give them sorceror casting.

I can go for the revised abilities.

The +8 armor as deflection is ok, but a deflection bonus is often tied to Cha. What about reducing NA to +37 and making it a +11 deflection bonus of some kind?
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Answering in no particular order: :p

I think version 1 is good for the breath weapon "reset" times.

I can go for "epic or alignment" for the DR on these, as you suggest.

How about any creature of Large size or smaller for Alternate Form?

Bahamut-style immunities will work.

Swim and burrow speeds are good, too. Plus the long-range darkvision and see invisibility. That all seems reasonable.
That's all fine by me.

I'll add the above revisions with the next update.

Didn't dragons back then generally cast as wizards, though? Assuming that's the case, I'd rather update these to 3.X and give them sorceror casting.
Actually no, early edition dragons did not use spell books.

AD&D Dragons had the following:

Monstrous Manual (1993) said:
Dragons learn spells haphazardly over the years. The DM should randomly determine which spells any particular dragon knows. The dragon can cast each spell once per day, unless random determination indicates the same spell more than once, in which case the dragon can cast it more than once a day. Dragons to not use spell books or pray to deities; they simply sleep, concentrate when they awaken, and remember their spells. Dragon spells have only a verbal component; the spells have a casting time of 1, regardless of level.
While BECMI Dragons had:

Dungeons & Dragons Rules Cyclopedia (1991) said:
Talking dragons are also able to use magical (but not clerical) spells. The number of spells and their levels are given in the table. Dragon spells are usually selected randomly. Wherever applicable, treat the Hit Dice of the dragon as the level of caster for spell-like effects (for purposes of duration, dispelling, etc.).
There were exceptions - there are always exceptions in D&D! - but most pre-3E dragons did not use spell books.

Bahamut is one of the aforementioned exceptions. The 1E Monster Manual says he "possesses books listing all known magic spells of these levels". Since his 3E version uses sorcerer casting it would be consistent to do the same for the Mystaran Dragon Rulers, it just doesn't seem very "divine-level dragon-ey".

How about we give it sorcerer casting but add a note that each aspect it manifests can have different "Sorcerer Known" spells based on the situation the Dragon Ruler expects to deal with?

I can go for the revised abilities.
Good!

Updating Peal the Moon Dragon Working Draft.

The +8 armor as deflection is ok, but a deflection bonus is often tied to Cha. What about reducing NA to +37 and making it a +11 deflection bonus of some kind?
How about switching the tied ability to Wisdom (or Intelligence) and make it an insight bonus? That'd require +38 natural and +10 insight for the same total armour modifier.
 

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