Converting True Dragons

[RavinRay]

The yellow dragon from Dragon Compendium is serpentine and relatively weak and we definitely want it to be different from that physically. And the purple matches or exceeds the red IIRC. I'd say make them closer to silver and topaz (which are nearly identical stat-wise) in Str and Con so that they're just a tad off the red. If the bite needs to be weaker than normal we can say it does bite damage as if it were one size category smaller. I'll check Con and Str in a while.

Edit: I compared the red and silver/topaz Str and Con side-by-side; and the red does edge out the two in Str, while the silver and topaz catch up with the red in Con only at great wyrm. So if we use the silver's (or even a less powerful dragon's) Str and retain the usual base attack value for the bite then the mustard's bite attack would have a smaller Str modifier bonus, as does its other attacks. But if we want to emphasize the weaker-than-normal bite attack, we can adapt the physical frailty of the arcane dragons just for the bite. So which way to you prefer?

 

[Cleon]

The yellow dragon from Dragon Compendium is serpentine and relatively weak and we definitely want it to be different from that physically. And the purple matches or exceeds the red IIRC. I'd say make them closer to silver and topaz (which are nearly identical stat-wise) in Str and Con so that they're just a tad off the red. If the bite needs to be weaker than normal we can say it does bite damage as if it were one size category smaller. I'll check Con and Str in a while.

Edit: I compared the red and silver/topaz Str and Con side-by-side; and the red does edge out the two in Str, while the silver and topaz catch up with the red in Con only at great wyrm. So if we use the silver's (or even a less powerful dragon's) Str and retain the usual base attack value for the bite then the mustard's bite attack would have a smaller Str modifier bonus, as does its other attacks. But if we want to emphasize the weaker-than-normal bite attack, we can adapt the physical frailty of the arcane dragons just for the bite. So which way to you prefer?

I'd rather have something between a Silver and a Green, with the size of a silver, e.g.

Medium, Str 15, Con 13
Large, Str 17, Con 15
Large, Str 19, Con 15
Large , Str 21, Con 17
Huge, Str 25, Con 19
Huge, Str 29, Con 21
Huge , Str 31, Con 21
Gargantuan, Str 33, Con 23
Gargantuan, Str 35, Con 23
Gargantuan, Str 37, Con 25
Gargantuan, Str 39, Con 27
Colossal, Str 41, Con 29

Giving it a size weaker bite and a size stronger claws is OK by me, we just have to say what its claws do when Colossal.

 

[Shade]

Well if you fancy a Big Dragons' size but a Mid-Sized Dragons' Strength & Con I wouldn't stand in your way.

I'd rather have something between a Silver and a Green, with the size of a silver, e.g.

Medium, Str 15, Con 13
Large, Str 17, Con 15
Large, Str 19, Con 15
Large , Str 21, Con 17
Huge, Str 25, Con 19
Huge, Str 29, Con 21
Huge , Str 31, Con 21
Gargantuan, Str 33, Con 23
Gargantuan, Str 35, Con 23
Gargantuan, Str 37, Con 25
Gargantuan, Str 39, Con 27
Colossal, Str 41, Con 29

Giving it a size weaker bite and a size stronger claws is OK by me, we just have to say what its claws do when Colossal.

Check Homebrews again. That's very close to what I've got.

 

[freyar]

And that should work just fine.

 

[Cleon]

Check Homebrews again. That's very close to what I've got.

So what are we arguing about then.

Shall we move on to the poison breath? It has one that causes sickness and Str + Dex damage, and another that causes blindness. Maybe add some hp or Con damage to one or the other?

We could do with a few special abilities too, but I can't think of any at the moment.

 

[freyar]

The blindness breath does seem a bit inferior in some ways, doesn't it? But I'm not sure if any type of damage would be thematically appropriate. Maybe exposed creatures are dazzled/sickened/something for a while even if they save and blinded if they fail the save?

 

[RavinRay]

Giving it a size weaker bite and a size stronger claws is OK by me, we just have to say what its claws do when Colossal.

For the claw damage, we can use the claw damage at Colossal+ size (4d8 from 4d6) as listed in the advanced/epic dragon rules and Dracomicon.

The blindness breath does seem a bit inferior in some ways, doesn't it? But I'm not sure if any type of damage would be thematically appropriate. Maybe exposed creatures are dazzled/sickened/something for a while even if they save and blinded if they fail the save?

Dazzled for a successful save and blinded on a fail is a good match.

 

[Cleon]

For the claw damage, we can use the claw damage at Colossal+ size (4d8 from 4d6) as listed in the advanced/epic dragon rules and Dracomicon.

Dazzled for a successful save and blinded on a fail is a good match.

I'll go along with that.

Dazzled is only a -1 penalty, but it's better than nothing.

How much Str & Dex damage are we having the Disease Breath do?

 

[freyar]

How about 1 point per two age categories. How tough to you want to make the disease to cure? Sounds Su, like mummy rot, but that might be a bit much at the early age categories.

 

[Cleon]

How about 1 point per two age categories. How tough to you want to make the disease to cure? Sounds Su, like mummy rot, but that might be a bit much at the early age categories.

I'd just make it regular disease.

Still can't help thinking we should make at least one of its breaths do some hp damage. Maybe nonlethal for the blinding breath?