Converting World of Greyhawk monsters

[Shade]

ever seen that episode of Tiny Toon Adventures with “Big Butt”? one of Mrs. Boz’s favorites.

Sadly, I don't remember that one. My memories of Pinkie and the Brain are better.

By the way, which is better for them – Monstrous Humanoid or Aberration? It’s not too late to change yet.

Monstrous Humanoid seems the most appropriate. They are essentially humanoids with one monstrous feature.

noted on the Dex. As for Multiweapon, I’d say no – that feat is for creatures that use a weapon in more than two hands (i.e., marilith for one), of which this guy is not. That “head-hand” is more like a gigantic flyswatter.

D'oh! I don't know what I was thinking way back then.

Now, we can work on them at the same time, focusing on their similarities and differences, or we can treat them as separate entities and do one at a time – or switch back and forth.

I think it would work best if we work on them at the same time, focusing on their similarities and differences.

 

[BOZ]

These two weirdos are going to have some things in common from their shared creations, but of course they are two sides of the same coin and will feature a wide range of differences. Let’s just take the stats from “Vecna Lives” head on (so to speak) and see what we come up with from there. (we’ll compare the Die Vecna Die stuff later)

from Vecna Lives:

The Hand
NO. OF ATTACKS: 3
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-8 (x2, weapon) + 7/1-10+7
(I’d like to see this guy be able to apply his full damage bonus to the slam attack – is there a precedent for that? Or should that only be applied to the resulting crushing attack?)

There are no indications of mouth or sensory organs, yet the Hand does not seem impaired for the lack of these.
(right – that’s why we have blindsight/blindsense these days!)

The Hand normally begins a battle by throwing daggers (1d4 +7 points of damage), two per turn. It carries 12 daggers on its belt.
(would the Two-Weapon Fighting also need to be applied to throwing two daggers?)

Just before closing for a melee, it draws the two swords carried on its back. It can fight with both of these with no penalty.
(cool)

The third hand is used to seize and crush the opponent, causing 1d10 + 7 points of damage with a successful attack (and holding on to squeeze for the same damage each round after a successful attack).
(Improved grab for one thing…)

It is by this third attack that the Hand feeds. Lacking a mouth, it finds nourishment by drawing the strength from other things, living and non-living. Gripped in its third hand, steel becomes brittle like glass until it finally crumbles into dust. Living creatures lose 1d6 points of Strength each round they are held. The Hand can maintain Its grip from round to round, both causing damage draining Strength. Held characters can break free by rolling a successful Strength check. If a character is drained to 0 Strength or less, he dies. Lost Strength is regained at the rate of one point per day.
(so then this is Str damage and not drain? And should the effect it has on materials be a second ability or part of the same thing?)

Since it lacks mouth and ears, the priests communicate with the Hand via telepathy. Although it lacks sensory organs, the Hand is endowed with magical senses equal to or slightly better than a normal person's. The Hand is immune to darkness, blindness, deafness, and other attacks that would affect a normal creature’s sensory organs. A dispel magic renders it blind for one round.
(aha!)




The Eye
NO. OF ATTACKS: 2
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-10 (weapon)/gaze
(so – it can attack with the greatsword and gaze in the same round. Gaze as free action 1/round?)

In situations in which it cannot use the sword, it crosses its arms, then whips out the two daggers to fight two-handed.
(same question as with the Hand?)

The Eye has several powers derived from its transformation. The least of these is that it cannot be surprised, as long as it is awake. It gains a -1 bonus to all initiative from a limited form of clairvoyance.
(remember – a –1 was a good thing! Improved Initiative, or maybe this comes from a Su ability?)

It is the gaze power of the Eye that is most fearsome. The Eye no longer eats in the normal sense, but it feeds on the souls of others drawn in by its gaze. Each round, the Eye can use its gaze attack on one target. Unless previously said to be avoiding the Eye's gaze, the victim must roll a saving throw vs. death. Those who succeed suffer no ill effect that round; those who fail are claimed by the Eye. Their life force is drawn into the Eye and held there. (This is seen by others as a ghostly form being sucked into the Eye.) The victim's body falls inert. The Eye cannot consume its metaphysical prey until the body is destroyed but once that is done the trapped life-force is devoured and can never be recovered by any means short of divine power.

If the Eye is slain, those life forces it has trapped but not devoured instantly return to their proper bodies, The Eye can voluntarily release any undevoured life forces. As a side effect, the Eye gains access to all the memories of those it traps.

Limited precognition causes the Eye to finish the sentences of others before they have a chance to say them.
(meh?)

The Eye has a limited precognition (as described in the combat section) that is constantly in effect. It can use clairvoyance, detect magic, and find traps at will. The Eye automatically detects all illusions.
(that’s better. I’d say that these are less likely spell-like abilities, but more subclasses of a Su ability like we did with the krakentua.)

The Eye's primary purpose is as a psychic tracker for the priests of Vecna. Once the Eye has seen an intelligent being – either directly or through scrying - it can sense that creature's aura over large distances. The range depends on the abilities of the player character. Those with no spellcasting ability can be detected only within a one-mile radius. Those with any spellcasting abilities are detectable at a radius in mules equal to their spell level. Thus a 12th level wizard (who is able to cast spells up to 6th level) is detectable within a six-mile radius.

The Eye's tracking ability is not infallible. Large concentrations of magical energy can shield a target's aura. Artifacts, stockpiles of magic items, or even areas with a high preponderance of spellcasters all have this effect. For example, simply entering the Guild of Wizardry is enough to block the Eye's tracking sense. In doubtful cases, the Eye must roll a successful saving throw vs. spell to retain the "scent."
(better than the Track feat!)

The Eye is able to communicate telepathically with whomever it wishes.
(easy enough.)

 

[Shade]

The Hand
NO. OF ATTACKS: 3
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-8 (x2, weapon) + 7/1-10+7
(I’d like to see this guy be able to apply his full damage bonus to the slam attack – is there a precedent for that? Or should that only be applied to the resulting crushing attack?)

Well, if we make it his primary weapon, won't that cover it?

There are no indications of mouth or sensory organs, yet the Hand does not seem impaired for the lack of these.
(right – that’s why we have blindsight/blindsense these days!)

Woo-hoo!

The Hand normally begins a battle by throwing daggers (1d4 +7 points of damage), two per turn. It carries 12 daggers on its belt.
(would the Two-Weapon Fighting also need to be applied to throwing two daggers?)

Yes indeed. From the srd...

Thrown Weapons: The same rules apply when you throw a weapon from each hand. Treat a dart or shuriken as a light weapon when used in this manner, and treat a bolas, javelin, net, or sling as a one-handed weapon.

Just before closing for a melee, it draws the two swords carried on its back. It can fight with both of these with no penalty.
(cool)

Very.

The third hand is used to seize and crush the opponent, causing 1d10 + 7 points of damage with a successful attack (and holding on to squeeze for the same damage each round after a successful attack).
(Improved grab for one thing…)

Yeah, and constrict, methinks.

It is by this third attack that the Hand feeds. Lacking a mouth, it finds nourishment by drawing the strength from other things, living and non-living. Gripped in its third hand, steel becomes brittle like glass until it finally crumbles into dust. Living creatures lose 1d6 points of Strength each round they are held. The Hand can maintain Its grip from round to round, both causing damage draining Strength. Held characters can break free by rolling a successful Strength check. If a character is drained to 0 Strength or less, he dies. Lost Strength is regained at the rate of one point per day.
(so then this is Str damage and not drain? And should the effect it has on materials be a second ability or part of the same thing?)

It does sound like Strength damage, rather than drain. I'd make the "grip of ruin" a different ability.

Since it lacks mouth and ears, the priests communicate with the Hand via telepathy. Although it lacks sensory organs, the Hand is endowed with magical senses equal to or slightly better than a normal person's. The Hand is immune to darkness, blindness, deafness, and other attacks that would affect a normal creature’s sensory organs. A dispel magic renders it blind for one round.
(aha!)

Talk to the Hand!

The Eye
NO. OF ATTACKS: 2
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-10 (weapon)/gaze
(so – it can attack with the greatsword and gaze in the same round. Gaze as free action 1/round?)

That sounds about right.

In situations in which it cannot use the sword, it crosses its arms, then whips out the two daggers to fight two-handed.
(same question as with the Hand?)

Same answer, plus Quick Draw.

The Eye has several powers derived from its transformation. The least of these is that it cannot be surprised, as long as it is awake. It gains a -1 bonus to all initiative from a limited form of clairvoyance.
(remember – a –1 was a good thing! Improved Initiative, or maybe this comes from a Su ability?)

I'd give it Improved Init, plus an insight bonus to AC.

It is the gaze power of the Eye that is most fearsome. The Eye no longer eats in the normal sense, but it feeds on the souls of others drawn in by its gaze. Each round, the Eye can use its gaze attack on one target. Unless previously said to be avoiding the Eye's gaze, the victim must roll a saving throw vs. death. Those who succeed suffer no ill effect that round; those who fail are claimed by the Eye. Their life force is drawn into the Eye and held there. (This is seen by others as a ghostly form being sucked into the Eye.) The victim's body falls inert. The Eye cannot consume its metaphysical prey until the body is destroyed but once that is done the trapped life-force is devoured and can never be recovered by any means short of divine power.

Sounds like trap the soul.

If the Eye is slain, those life forces it has trapped but not devoured instantly return to their proper bodies, The Eye can voluntarily release any undevoured life forces. As a side effect, the Eye gains access to all the memories of those it traps.

Hmmm...perhaps we can look to the crawling head and brain collector for inspiration.

Limited precognition causes the Eye to finish the sentences of others before they have a chance to say them.
(meh?)

Detect thoughts always active?

The Eye has a limited precognition (as described in the combat section) that is constantly in effect. It can use clairvoyance, detect magic, and find traps at will. The Eye automatically detects all illusions.
(that’s better. I’d say that these are less likely spell-like abilities, but more subclasses of a Su ability like we did with the krakentua.)

Yes, or say that they are spell-likes always in effect (like solars and others have).

The Eye's primary purpose is as a psychic tracker for the priests of Vecna. Once the Eye has seen an intelligent being – either directly or through scrying - it can sense that creature's aura over large distances. The range depends on the abilities of the player character. Those with no spellcasting ability can be detected only within a one-mile radius. Those with any spellcasting abilities are detectable at a radius in mules equal to their spell level. Thus a 12th level wizard (who is able to cast spells up to 6th level) is detectable within a six-mile radius.

A modified form of locate creature and/or find the path?

The Eye's tracking ability is not infallible. Large concentrations of magical energy can shield a target's aura. Artifacts, stockpiles of magic items, or even areas with a high preponderance of spellcasters all have this effect. For example, simply entering the Guild of Wizardry is enough to block the Eye's tracking sense. In doubtful cases, the Eye must roll a successful saving throw vs. spell to retain the "scent."
(better than the Track feat!)

Indeed.

The Eye is able to communicate telepathically with whomever it wishes.
(easy enough.)

Yeah, I'd say so.

 

[BOZ]

The Hand

Well, if we make it his primary weapon, won't that cover it?

wouldn’t that automatically be its primary weapon anyway, since that is its only natural weapon? The question is, however, about how damage bonuses work with two weapon attacks and one natural attack. I’m not sure about how all the attack bonuses add up either.

Yeah, and constrict, methinks.

which, of course, is a related question. I’m used to seeing Constrict used with snakes and snake-like creatures, but I guess it still works with any attack that squeezes prey? Now the question I have is, if the full damage modifier normally goes to the two swords, would the slam get only half (+3)? And would it still get only +3 for the constrict or would that do the full +7?

It does sound like Strength damage, rather than drain. I'd make the "grip of ruin" a different ability.

I’m thinking, possibly, that it should do Str damage to any grabbed opponent whether or not it is constricted?

“grip of ruin” – heh, I like that.

Talk to the Hand!

it doesn’t sound from the description that the Hand has telepathy, unlike the Eye. “the priests communicate with the Hand via telepathy” is in a passive voice, so it sounds like the priests are the ones who initiate telepathic communication. Made that into flavor text:
“The Hand cannot speak. It does think, however, and can be communicated with telepathically.”

Also, should we state anything about it being blind or can we allow the DM to make the assumption that it is “immune to darkness, blindness, deafness, and other attacks that would affect a normal creature’s sensory organs”?

And when I look at this sentence again, I’m wondering if its blindsight is magical in nature: “A dispel magic renders it blind for one round.”


The Eye:

I'd give it Improved Init, plus an insight bonus to AC.

good call! also, is there some sort of ability to cover this: “it cannot be surprised, as long as it is awake”? could be another monk ability, or something the rogue has.

Sounds like trap the soul.

Ah, hmm, yes it does to a point. Let’s see…

“Death Gaze (Su): The Eye can feed on the souls of living beings by drawing them in with its gaze. This attack can be used as a free action, once per round, against a single target within 60 feet that can see the Eye. The victim must succeed on a DC X Will save or have its life force held in a manner similar to trap the soul. Instead of the victim’s body disappearing, it falls inert. The victim’s life force is drawn out of the body, seen by others as a ghostly version of the victim, which is then sucked into the Eye’s body and held there.

If the Eye is slain, any life forces trapped within it instantly return to their proper bodies. The Eye can voluntarily release any life force it has not yet devoured as a free action. The Eye has access to all of the memories of any trapped victims. A life force otherwise remains trapped within the Eye until its true body is destroyed, at which point the life force will be devoured by the Eye and permanently lost to any means short of divine intervention.”

Hmmm...perhaps we can look to the crawling head and brain collector for inspiration.

why, what do they have?

Detect thoughts always active?

does that involve precognitive abilities? I’m not sure whether or not we need to go here.

Yes, or say that they are spell-likes always in effect (like solars and others have).

I’ll look into it.

A modified form of locate creature and/or find the path?

not sure – I’ll have to give that one some thought too.

 

[Shade]

wouldn’t that automatically be its primary weapon anyway, since that is its only natural weapon? The question is, however, about how damage bonuses work with two weapon attacks and one natural attack. I’m not sure about how all the attack bonuses add up either.

Let the SRD be our guide...

"Some creatures combine attacks with natural and manufactured weapons when they make a full attack. When they do so, the manufactured weapon attack is considered the primary attack unless the creature’s description indicates otherwise and any natural weapons the creature also uses are considered secondary natural attacks. These secondary attacks do not interfere with the primary attack as attacking with an off-hand weapon does, but they take the usual –5 penalty (or –2 with the Multiattack feat) for such attacks, even if the natural weapon used is normally the creature’s primary natural weapon."

which, of course, is a related question. I’m used to seeing Constrict used with snakes and snake-like creatures, but I guess it still works with any attack that squeezes prey? Now the question I have is, if the full damage modifier normally goes to the two swords, would the slam get only half (+3)? And would it still get only +3 for the constrict or would that do the full +7?

Yeah, constrict works with other attacks (see choker, chuul, etc.).
"Primary weapons use a creature’s full attack bonus, no matter how many primary weapons it has. The monster applies its full Strength bonus on damage rolls with its primary natural weapons, or 1-1/2 times its Strength bonus if the monster has only one primary natural weapon (for example, a wolf's bite)."

"All other natural weapons are secondary attacks. Reduce the creature’s attack bonus by 5 for all such attacks, no matter how many there are. Creatures with the Multiattack feat take only a –2 penalty on secondary attacks. A monster applies 1/2 its Strength bonus on damage rolls with its secondary natural weapons."

So, assuming the slam is the primary attack, it would look something like this:

Base Attack/Grapple: +13/+13+Str
Attack: Slam +13 melee (XdX+Str) or longsword +13 melee (1d8+Str/19-20) or dagger +13 ranged (1d4+1/2 Str)
Full Attack: Slam +13 melee (XdX+Str) and 2 longswords +4 melee (1d8+Half Str/19-20) or 2 daggers +13 ranged (1d4+Str/19-20)

Note the -4 penalty to the longswords for fighting with a one-handed weapon in both hands (rather than a light weapon). This also assumes that it has the Two-Weapon Fighting feat.

I’m thinking, possibly, that it should do Str damage to any grabbed opponent whether or not it is constricted?

That is probably a good idea.

“grip of ruin” – heh, I like that.

it doesn’t sound from the description that the Hand has telepathy, unlike the Eye. “the priests communicate with the Hand via telepathy” is in a passive voice, so it sounds like the priests are the ones who initiate telepathic communication. Made that into flavor text:
“The Hand cannot speak. It does think, however, and can be communicated with telepathically.”

Good catch.

Also, should we state anything about it being blind or can we allow the DM to make the assumption that it is “immune to darkness, blindness, deafness, and other attacks that would affect a normal creature’s sensory organs”?

Borrowed from the ooze type:

Blind (Ex): The Hand is blind (but has the blindsight special quality), with immunity to gaze attacks, visual effects, illusions, and other attack forms that rely on sight.

And when I look at this sentence again, I’m wondering if its blindsight is magical in nature: “A dispel magic renders it blind for one round.”

Most likely.

good call! also, is there some sort of ability to cover this: “it cannot be surprised, as long as it is awake”? could be another monk ability, or something the rogue has.

Probably uncanny dodge is the closest ability.

Ah, hmm, yes it does to a point. Let’s see…

“Death Gaze (Su): The Eye can feed on the souls of living beings by drawing them in with its gaze. This attack can be used as a free action, once per round, against a single target within 60 feet that can see the Eye. The victim must succeed on a DC X Will save or have its life force held in a manner similar to trap the soul. Instead of the victim’s body disappearing, it falls inert. The victim’s life force is drawn out of the body, seen by others as a ghostly version of the victim, which is then sucked into the Eye’s body and held there.

If the Eye is slain, any life forces trapped within it instantly return to their proper bodies. The Eye can voluntarily release any life force it has not yet devoured as a free action. The Eye has access to all of the memories of any trapped victims. A life force otherwise remains trapped within the Eye until its true body is destroyed, at which point the life force will be devoured by the Eye and permanently lost to any means short of divine intervention.”

Good so far, and see the next answer for more...

why, what do they have?

Actually, the crawling head's ability isn't as helpful as I thought. However...
"A neh-thalggu is free to draw on all the Knowledge skills of each brain it currently stores, using the base ranks in a skill possessed by each brain, and adjusted by the neh-thalggu's own skill modifiers for the Knowledge skill in question (or its Intelligence modifier, for a skill it has no ranks in)."

does that involve precognitive abilities? I’m not sure whether or not we need to go here.

I was thinking along the lines of the solar and other creatures:

"The following abilities are always active on the solar's person, as the spells (caster level 20th); detect evil, detect snares and pits, discern lies (DC 21), see invisibility, and true seeing. They can be dispelled, but the solar can reactivate them as a free action."

 

[BOZ]

The Hand:

So, let’s see if I have this right… would these lines look something like this? Assuming Str 24, Dex of about 15, and Two-Weapon fighting. From what you posted from the SRD, it says to assume that manufactured weapons will be the primary weapon most of the time. Let’s see how those numbers work out:

Base Attack/Grapple: +13/+20
Special Attacks: Constrict 1d10+7 …

These lines should be standard.
So we have either/or for these:

Attack: Longsword +20 melee (1d8+7/19-20) or slam +20 melee (1d10+7) or dagger +15 ranged (1d4+7/19-20)
Full Attack: 2 longswords +16 melee (1d8+7/19-20) and slam +15 melee (1d10+3) or 2 daggers +11 ranged (1d4+7/19-20)

Attack: Slam +20 melee (1d10+7) or longsword +20 melee (1d8+7/19-20) or dagger +15 ranged (1d4+1/2 Str) (DAGGER is ½ STR?)
Full Attack: Slam +20 melee (1d10+7) and 2 longswords +11 melee (1d8+3/19-20) or 2 daggers +11 ranged (1d4+7/19-20)

The question is, which of those two attack lines looks better? In the first set for full attack, the Longsword and slam have a nearly equal chance to hit and the damage ratings are also close. In the second one, the slam has a clear advantage.

Note the -4 penalty to the longswords for fighting with a one-handed weapon in both hands (rather than a light weapon). This also assumes that it has the Two-Weapon Fighting feat.

ah, you mean as opposed to the –2 penalty it would get if it was using, say, two short swords instead.

yes, but it is also deaf. Let’s see, how’s this for a try:

“Magical Senses” (Su): The Hand possesses no visual or auditory organs and has immunity to gaze attacks, visual effects, illusions, sonic effects, and other attack forms that rely on sight and hearing. Instead, the hand has blindsight out to 60 feet (and an ability to “sense” noise?). These senses can be suppressed for 1 round by a dispel magic spell.



The Eye:

Probably uncanny dodge is the closest ability.

I was thinking it but couldn’t articulate it. so, setting it equal to HD…

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): The Eye retains its Dexterity bonus to AC when flat-footed, and it cannot be flanked except by a rogue of at least 16th level. It can flank characters with the uncanny dodge ability as if it were a 12th-level rogue.

Actually, the crawling head's ability isn't as helpful as I thought. However...
"A neh-thalggu is free to draw on all the Knowledge skills of each brain it currently stores, using the base ranks in a skill possessed by each brain, and adjusted by the neh-thalggu's own skill modifiers for the Knowledge skill in question (or its Intelligence modifier, for a skill it has no ranks in)."

yoink!

that’s not quite the same as precognition is it? Wasn’t there an ability somewhere in D&D that let you look a round or two into the future or was that nerfed? If there’s no current rules correspondence, I say we drop this.

 

[Shade]

So, let’s see if I have this right… would these lines look something like this? Assuming Str 24, Dex of about 15, and Two-Weapon fighting. From what you posted from the SRD, it says to assume that manufactured weapons will be the primary weapon most of the time. Let’s see how those numbers work out:

Base Attack/Grapple: +13/+20
Special Attacks: Constrict 1d10+7 …

These lines should be standard.
So we have either/or for these:

Attack: Longsword +20 melee (1d8+7/19-20) or slam +20 melee (1d10+7) or dagger +15 ranged (1d4+7/19-20)
Full Attack: 2 longswords +16 melee (1d8+7/19-20) and slam +15 melee (1d10+3) or 2 daggers +11 ranged (1d4+7/19-20)

Attack: Slam +20 melee (1d10+7) or longsword +20 melee (1d8+7/19-20) or dagger +15 ranged (1d4+1/2 Str) (DAGGER is ½ STR?)
Full Attack: Slam +20 melee (1d10+7) and 2 longswords +11 melee (1d8+3/19-20) or 2 daggers +11 ranged (1d4+7/19-20)

The question is, which of those two attack lines looks better? In the first set for full attack, the Longsword and slam have a nearly equal chance to hit and the damage ratings are also close. In the second one, the slam has a clear advantage.

I would go with the second, since the orginal text listed 1d10+7 for the hand. I think the dagger is always full Str bonus, since it is always listed as an "or" with no "ands", if that makes sense.

ah, you mean as opposed to the –2 penalty it would get if it was using, say, two short swords instead.

Indeed. I play a character wielding dual longswords, so I'm very familiar with these penalties.

Also, if you want to preserve this...

Just before closing for a melee, it draws the two swords carried on its back. It can fight with both of these with no penalty.

...we might borrow this from the marilith and add this...

Feats: In combination with its natural abilities, the Hand's Two-Weapon Fighting feat allows it to attack with two longswords at no penalty.

I was thinking it but couldn’t articulate it. so, setting it equal to HD…

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): The Eye retains its Dexterity bonus to AC when flat-footed, and it cannot be flanked except by a rogue of at least 16th level. It can flank characters with the uncanny dodge ability as if it were a 12th-level rogue.

Looks good.

that’s not quite the same as precognition is it? Wasn’t there an ability somewhere in D&D that let you look a round or two into the future or was that nerfed? If there’s no current rules correspondence, I say we drop this.

Not that I'm aware of.

 

[BOZ]

Constrict (Ex): The Hand deals automatic slam damage with a successful grapple check.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, the Hand must hit with its slam attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can either constrict or deal strength damage or both.

...we might borrow this from the marilith and add this...

Feats: In combination with its natural abilities, the Hand's Two-Weapon Fighting feat allows it to attack with two longswords at no penalty.

And we will! and yes, I definitely would like to keep the “no penalty” idea, since it was a stated concept before.


And, what do you think of my idea for the Hand’s sensory powers? We might also add to that it can’t be flanked or caught flat-footed while the power is active.

Not that I'm aware of.

then I’m going to nix it as a special power. Might retain a vestige of it for flavor text though. Now what would cover the ability to read the mind as described earlier? It doesn’t have to be much, just enough to know the surface thoughts and such – detect thoughts may be sufficient. I’ll just add the “Eye thinks of it before you do” as flavor text if I want to keep it at all.


Oh yeah, reprinting the stats from “Die Vecna Die” – see if there is anything here we can add to what we have already:

Hand Servitor: AC 0; MV 12; HD13; hp 104; THACO 7 (6 with longsword +1,5 with longsword +2); #AT 3; Dmg ld8+8/ld8+9/ldlO+7 (longsword +l/longsword +2/grasp); SA grasp, Strength drain; SZ M (4'6"tall); ML champion (16); Int low (7); AL CE; XP 8,000.

Special Abilities: Grasp —a successful attack by third hand allows the Hand Servitor to retain its hold, automatically doing 1d10+7 hit points/round in crushing damage, unless victim can break free with successful Bend Bars/Lift Gates roll. Each round the grasp does damage, it also automatically drains 1d6 Strength points from victim, killing victim if Strength reaches 0; otherwise lost Strength returns at 1 point/day.

Eye Servitor: AC 2; MV 12; HD 12; hp 96; THACO 9 (7 with two-handed sword +2); #AT 1; Dmg 1d10+2 (two-handed sword +2); SA death gaze, cast clairvoyance, detect magic, and find traps at will; SD immune to surprise, -1 bonus to initiative rolls, immune to all illusionists M (5'7"tall); ML champion (15); Int exceptional (15); AL CE; XP 9,000.

Special Abilities: Death gaze —once per round, the Eye Servitor can use its gaze attack on 1 target. Unless explicitly attempting to avoid the gaze, the target must succeed at a saving throw vs. death magic. The Eye claims those who fail by visibly drawing their life force into it, leaving the body inert. If the body is destroyed, the Eye consumes its stolen life force, but until then, the life force remains viable, though displaced. If the Eye is slain, the life force rejoins its inert body (the Eye may voluntarily release the life force, but it is unlikely to do so). The Eye gains all the memories of each life force it holds.

 

[Shade]

Constrict (Ex): The Hand deals automatic slam damage with a successful grapple check.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, the Hand must hit with its slam attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can either constrict or deal strength damage or both.

Looks good.

And we will! and yes, I definitely would like to keep the “no penalty” idea, since it was a stated concept before.

Great!

And, what do you think of my idea for the Hand’s sensory powers? We might also add to that it can’t be flanked or caught flat-footed while the power is active.

I don't know how I missed 'em. They look good, though. So how about giving it Improved Uncanny Dodge, but with the footnote that it only works while the power is active? (Essentially, what you said).

then I’m going to nix it as a special power. Might retain a vestige of it for flavor text though. Now what would cover the ability to read the mind as described earlier? It doesn’t have to be much, just enough to know the surface thoughts and such – detect thoughts may be sufficient. I’ll just add the “Eye thinks of it before you do” as flavor text if I want to keep it at all.

I think that detect thoughts should be sufficient.

Oh yeah, reprinting the stats from “Die Vecna Die” – see if there is anything here we can add to what we have already:

It gives us an idea on weight, as the Hand is about as tall as a dwarf, while the Eye is more human-sized.

 

[BOZ]

For the Hand, how about:

Grip of Ruin (Su): The Hand can hold objects (of Small or smaller size?) in its third hand, if it chooses not to use its slam attack or grapple an opponent with it in that round. The Hand drains the hardness from an object at a rate of (1d4?) per round, until the object eventually crumbles into dust. Magic items can resist this drain on a (DC X Will save?).

Strength Damage (Su): The Hand can choose to deal 1d6 points of Strength damage on a successful grapple check. If a victim reaches Strength 0 in this way, it dies.

“Magical Senses” (Su): The Hand possesses no visual or auditory organs and has immunity to gaze attacks, visual effects, illusions, sonic effects, and other attack forms that rely on sight or hearing. Instead, the hand has blindsight out to 60 feet (and an ability to detect noise?) and cannot be flanked or caught flat-footed. These senses can be suppressed for 1 round by a dispel magic spell.


And for the Eye, how about:

Spell-Like Abilities: The following abilities are always active on the Eye’s person, as the spells (caster level Xth); clairaudience/clairvoyance, detect magic, detect thoughts, find traps, and true seeing. They can be dispelled, but the Eye can reactivate them as a free action.

“Tracking Sense” (Su): The eye has the ability to sense an intelligent creature’s aura over long distances, if it has seen the creature directly or through scrying. The Eye can detect most creatures up to 1 mile away. Creatures with spellcasting abilities are detectable at a range in miles equal to their total caster levels (or, like the text, a number or miles equal to the highest level of spells they can cast?).

To track a creature’s aura, the Eye must succeed on a DC X (knowledge arcana? Gather information? Search?) check. If it fails the check, the Eye can retry after (1 hour) of meditation. If successful, the Eye can sense the creature as if by the locate creature spell.

This tracking ability can be blocked if the creature is within X feet of a large concentration of magical energy, such as an artifact, a stockpile of magic items, or at least (three?) other spellcasters. In such an instance, the Eye must succeed on a DC X Will save or lose the ability to track the creature’s aura until it leaves the source of magical energy. Running water does not block this ability.


Does this need to be explored?:
“it cannot be surprised, as long as it is awake.”