D&D 5E Convince. A potential skill narrowing option.

[Steampunkette]

Was looking around Conan Exiles servers to play and I found one that uses the Roleplay Redux character sheet mod with D&D style skill use.

Only instead of Deception and Persuasion they have Convince. And I think it's a brilliant idea.

Rolling to Convince feels more natural than rolling Persuasion or Deception. It also hides whether you're telling the truth or lying. You're -just- being Convincing. Which can be helpful at the table to establish a character being convincing without tipping their hand to the rest of the party about whether they're lying or just being charming.

The whole "Do you really think we'll survive this?" "No. But I needed him to believe it." moment that you can't really get when both players know that the character rolled Deception against the NPC.

What do you think?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I don't see the reason to keep secretes out of game, so this is a solution that has no problem in my mind

 

[Yaarel]

Was looking around Conan Exiles servers to play and I found one that uses the Roleplay Redux character sheet mod with D&D style skill use.

Only instead of Deception and Persuasion they have Convince. And I think it's a brilliant idea.

Rolling to Convince feels more natural than rolling Persuasion or Deception. It also hides whether you're telling the truth or lying. You're -just- being Convincing. Which can be helpful at the table to establish a character being convincing without tipping their hand to the rest of the party about whether they're lying or just being charming.

The whole "Do you really think we'll survive this?" "No. But I needed him to believe it." moment that you can't really get when both players know that the character rolled Deception against the NPC.

What do you think?

I usually use Intelligence for Deception, and use it to create any kind of replica, whether for the purpose to record, entertain or to defraud. It is more like a "Simulation" check.

I would probably use Intelligece (Deception) here too in the sense of "convince".

 

[Baldurs_Underdark]

"Persuasion" can be renamed "Convince". But in my opinion Deception should still be a separate skill.

Both these skills are used so much that it makes sense to split it into two skills to ensure that it's costly to be good at both. If you merge the two, then it's going to be the #1 skill to choose in any game with social encounters.

I like it that some players are natural liars or con artists, and some others are naturally good at convincing.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Yes, I have done this. Persuasion often involves some exaggeration and embellishments and it is annoying and pointless to try to gauge when it becomes enough a lie that we should use a different skill. These skills blur together all the time, so it is better to get rid of the distinction.

 

[delericho]

Convince is fine. Honestly, I think Persuasion and Deception are also fine.

The big issue, as far as I can tell, is that either the group will have a Face character proficient in all the skills (and so will always roll d20+Cha+Prof), or the Face will be proficient in only one and so will approach every interaction in the same way (so as to always roll d20+Cha+Prof). Either way isn't great.

I'm inclined to advocate therefore that instead of social skills, characters should be proficient in interacting with various groups - so the Fighter might be proficient with soldiers, the Paladin with nobles, and so on. The effect of that is that the social interactions are likely to be spread out a bit, as the best person for the job isn't always the designated Face.

 

[Steampunkette]

Oh that is -clever-, Delericho...

That is clever indeed. Level Up/A5e has some of that in Backgrounds and Culture, but yeah... I do like the idea of character classes and heritages having impact on who they're good at talking to, independent of -how- they're trying to talk to them.

Might get a bit fiddly... but I do like that.

 

[Laurefindel]

Was looking around Conan Exiles servers to play and I found one that uses the Roleplay Redux character sheet mod with D&D style skill use.

Only instead of Deception and Persuasion they have Convince. And I think it's a brilliant idea.

Rolling to Convince feels more natural than rolling Persuasion or Deception. It also hides whether you're telling the truth or lying. You're -just- being Convincing. Which can be helpful at the table to establish a character being convincing without tipping their hand to the rest of the party about whether they're lying or just being charming.

The whole "Do you really think we'll survive this?" "No. But I needed him to believe it." moment that you can't really get when both players know that the character rolled Deception against the NPC.

What do you think?

Given the amount of naughty word that people use to persuade their peers; I'd buy that.

 

[bedir than]

I'm inclined to advocate therefore that instead of social skills, characters should be proficient in interacting with various groups - so the Fighter might be proficient with soldiers, the Paladin with nobles, and so on. The effect of that is that the social interactions are likely to be spread out a bit, as the best person for the job isn't always the designated Face.

In most of these situations I would use a group check, and yes would grant advantage for the characters that leaned into their background or other justifications via story

 

[Ondath]

Convince is fine. Honestly, I think Persuasion and Deception are also fine.

The big issue, as far as I can tell, is that either the group will have a Face character proficient in all the skills (and so will always roll d20+Cha+Prof), or the Face will be proficient in only one and so will approach every interaction in the same way (so as to always roll d20+Cha+Prof). Either way isn't great.

I'm inclined to advocate therefore that instead of social skills, characters should be proficient in interacting with various groups - so the Fighter might be proficient with soldiers, the Paladin with nobles, and so on. The effect of that is that the social interactions are likely to be spread out a bit, as the best person for the job isn't always the designated Face.

Oh you just wrinkled my brain! I think the closest thing I've seen to this is some variant Cortex Prime rules where the size of the die you add to the pool changes depending on who your character is dealing with/their social context (in the Cortex-based Marvel Heroic RPG for instance, loner supers like Wolverine get a bigger die when working alone while team leaders like Cyclops get a bigger die when they're in 3+ squads), and this might be a very refreshing way of overhauling social interactions in games like D&D without referring to different rhetorical techniques (which is what the current system is based on)!

Excuse me while I homebrew some stuff...